Am I being overcharged for an engine service?

[penfold]

Unlikely many would accept the job like that; they would estimate based on lifting/dragging the engine into the saloon, otherwise the estimating becomes a farce of guessing.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Unlikely many would accept the job like that; they would estimate based on lifting/dragging the engine into the saloon, otherwise the estimating becomes a farce of guessing.

Another good reason to do one own repairs .

 

[ylop]

changing oil, filters and impeller isn’t rocket sciences tighten up a belt isn’t hard ,
you only need basic tools we should all have on board .

agreed

there are job boat owners should be able to do .

agreed, but should be able to, and should always choose to are different things. I'll refer you back to my previous list. Only skills is about ability, and even then some of that is about the experience - I have a good feel for how things should be based on how they previously have been (e.g. belt tension, state of the oil, finish of the impeller cover etc) if the engine is new to you there is some sense in getting someone who has serviced dozens of that exact model to service it the first time and then your reference point is a known good situation rather than whatever you inherited. You also know that all the service screws/nuts/bolts have been moved last time and you aren't doubting if you are about to end up in a mess.

you don’t have to be a gym freak .

you don't but it would sometimes be quite handy if your arms were about 2" longer than mine (and I'm 6'), I'm pretty sure a time will come when crawling around on the floor for a few hours is not my idea of fun, long before I am actually unable to do it or unable to sail the boat.

but let’s be fair , not being able to get rid of old oil or parts, not having tools or not knowing what parts they need is no excuse.

I'm not sure anyone needs an "excuse" for making a decision as an adult to outsource a job they don't want to do. But to change the oil I'll need an extractor, then I'll need a suitable old container, then I'll need to take it somewhere to dispose of it. Getting the right parts if I want to buy OEM ones at great expense is quite straight forward as I have the manual which lists them. An older boat may not. Either way if I want to use pattern parts it gets into the world of internet searching (time) and hoping you got the right one. I didn't say you need specialist tools because other than a filter wrench a screwdriver and small socket set you don't... right until the point your round off a screw or break a bolt, or discover theres a bit of impeller missing, or can't get the new fuel filter to seal properly etc. A mechanic probably fixes that in no time, whereas the amateur is probably going to spend a couple of hours on youtube and ybw/forums working out the best plan!

For some reason though people here seem to judge others who have decided to outsource getting an engine service done. Their boat, their money, their choice. If they would rather spend a day on the water (or doing other boat maintenance) than servicing the engine (and as a rare one off - it probably is best part of a day when you add in purchasing and disposing etc) then they can, I'm not sure why you'd have a problem with it or think that the most helpful advice for someone wanting to know if they've been conned for work already done is "do it yourself" since they can't go back in time to do that anyway.

 

[KevinV]

For some reason though people here seem to judge others who have decided to outsource getting an engine service done. Their boat, their money, their choice.

This.

I'm quite capable of servicing engines but, other than my motorbikes, choose not to - I'm just not interested and have plenty more fruitful ways to spend my scarce time.

 

[sailaboutvic]

This.

I'm quite capable of servicing engines but, other than my motorbikes, choose not to - I'm just not interested and have plenty more fruitful ways to spend my scarce time.

This is very true but YES there a but , when you motor bike break down you just park it no problem, call someone out .
when-the impeller in the water pump gets chewed up in the middle of no where , no wind or worst heading for rocks if you don’t know how to deal with it your in for a problem.

the OP is complaing about what he been charge and he may have good reason for it ,

he May earn or has enough money to pay and so not get his hands dirty fair enough .
but pulling that to one side people should know how to do the min to keep their engine / boat maintain.
but hey that’s my view anyway.
let be honsty if most of us read that the lifeboat at to be launch to go out a rescue boat who engine wouldn’t start only to find the battery lead as come off , people here would have a lot to say about the owner .

 

[smallplasticboat]

Many thanks for your input, which have been very interesting and which have given me lots of pause(s) for thought They are really appreciated (and most definitely – though based on few facts – of great worth! A few thoughts to add a bit more colour and in response to some of the comments:

• I would have loved to do the service myself – a much better idea in general - but the engine’s warranty requires it be done by a dealer. Access is easy, as reflected by the fact that it was all wrapped up in less than 1:20 minutes.
• The engineer did a great job – I have no beef with his work at all, just what his employer are billing.
• This was not a self-employed engineer: he is employed by a main dealer with a network of marinas and other businesses in the UK, worth in excess of £100million.
• They did not “quote” four hours. They “estimated” four hours.
• It was DEFINITELY an estimate. In legal and (I think!) commonsense terms this is entirely different from a “quotation” or a “minimum charge”.
• I would not expect ANY estimate to come with a a rider saying "actual time would be charged" – it seems to me that that should be the basic assumption.
• When initially questioned, the company’s response was to break down how they thought the four hours might have been spent. There was no question of saying “this is a minimum charge”. My original post showed the activities they claimed might add up to four “actual” hours. I just don’t believe these activities could ever add up to that amount of time!
• If the job took longer than the estimate because of an unforeseen problem with the engine or access (for instance), then, yes, I would expect to pay for the time taken.
• Paying for actual travel time is reasonable and right, but if an engineer for instance has a trip Home - job A –Job B – Job C – Office it seems (to me) fraudulent rather than “clever” to charge two trips to each of the three jobs (six trips as opposed to three or four). The latter would be double counting and “clever” would be a very polite description of the billing practice!

So, prompted and educated by all your comments – for which many thanks again – I will politely write to them, we will reach agreement as to the right amount to pay, and I will move to another provider.

 

[steveeasy]

Well the service was quite basic and missing a belt, quoted 4 hours and taking 1 hour and 20 mins is a bit of a Micky take.

Personally I think they should come back and do the belt. Then pay them the agreed amount,

Steveeasy

 

[sailaboutvic]

@ Small plastic boat
if I may add what your going to pay in main dealer servicing isn’t worth the extra warranty.
by law you have a year warranty , a new engine unless you do some thing silly like run it out of oil is going to last you many years then there warranty and if you did do some thing silly they wouldn’t warranty it any way ,
some years back I brough
a new boat after they PDI it the first service was stupid money , I refuse to pay the full amount and after emails when back and fro we agreed on half the bill plus they throw in some spare parts .
like you I was on the boat at the time , there workshop was a five min walk from boat to their base and like you they tried on .
some years on their guy who by then have left the company told me it not unusual for people to complain about the invoice .
I will add after the first service the sump plug had a slight leak from the banjo but it was impossible to remove the plug without lifting the engine ,
addmitly they drain the oil through the dip stick so it wasn’t any thing the engineer did ,
they said they would do the best they could to try and stop the leak but lifing the engine wasn’t part of the warranty,
they did get a turn on it which stopped it for a while but three months o it started to leak .
in the end I manage to get the engine up enough to change the banjo .

 

[ylop]

when-the impeller in the water pump gets chewed up in the middle of no where , no wind or worst heading for rocks if you don’t know how to deal with it your in for a problem.

But you are conflating choosing not to do a service yourself, and not knowing how to do an urgent repair at sea. They are different issues.

he May earn or has enough money to pay and so not get his hands dirty fair enough .
but pulling that to one side people should know how to do the min to keep their engine / boat maintain.

I think everyone agrees that point, but you are putting the OPS question to one side!

let be honsty if most of us read that the lifeboat at to be launch to go out a rescue boat who engine wouldn’t start only to find the battery lead as come off , people here would have a lot to say about the owner .

People here always have a lot to say. Personally I don’t have a huge issue if a lifeboat launches to a loose battery cable. Not because I think the RNLI should be at peoples beck and call for silly faults, but unless I’m on the boat I’m not going to judge the skipper if they’ve failed to find the obvious.

@ Small plastic boat
if I may add what your going to pay in main dealer servicing isn’t worth the extra warranty.

On average that is true. It’s like pet insurance - over the lifetime of the pet it’s probably cheaper to save the money and cough up when something big happens after several years but you might be the unlucky one who gets a big bill at 18 months…. So it depends if you have the cash to cover that risk.

 

[steveeasy]

I think you need to know what they quoted for. Engine service is a loose word.
Then determine if they did this fully.
I don’t think it’s fair to charge for getting the service kit ready and wonder why no belt was changed.

The quote should have really shown any charge for preparation and travel separately.

Steveeasy