Am I being overcharged for an engine service?

[smallplasticboat]

Advice appreciated. I booked an engine service, with the provider estimating it would take four hours. It actually took 1 hour 20 minutes from the arrival of the engineer to his departure: but they billed for exactly four hours, which they attempt to explain as "the preparation of the service kit, the travelling time taken to the boat, carrying out the service, which is changing the filters, the oils, and the belts where necessary, the return travel and the waste disposal following the work carried out".

Travel time is debatable: he had another job before mine, which would have taken him maybe 30 minutes to drive to, then 25 minutes from there to my boat, and 30 minutes back to his base: so I would expect - as one of two jobs on the day - to pay a maximum of 45 minutes of travel. Preparation of the service kit - five minutes max (note they do not charge "preparation time" when you buy it over the counter!) and waste disposal maybe ten minutes (bearing in mind they would have "prepared kit" and disposed of the waste for the other job too). Total ACTUAL time would have been two hours twenty minutes, absolute tops. Incidentally they are asking for payment for the belt, which they did not actually change.

Now perhaps I should have raised a concern when they estimated the time initially, but it WAS only an estimate, and I expected to be invoiced an honest charge based on the actual time taken.

Am I being unreasonable in objecting to be asked for payment for four hours?

 

[Tranona]

The 4 hours would be a "standard" figure for a standalone job, You could argue that doing another job "on the way" resulted in a saving, but unless the the estimate was given with a rider that "actual time would be charged" I think you will have a battle. You should get the belt removed from the invoice and press for a reduction in labour to cover that element. push for your lower figure but if you get a compromise of 3 hours rather than 4 that would be a win in my view.

Just a rider, make sure the original price was clearly stated as an estimate, not a fixed price.

 

[ylop]

if he’d broken a bolt when servicing and spent all day sorting it out or discovered once he was there that the oil filter he brought was the wrong one / damaged or some other set back are you saying you’d have happily paid more money? If you want travelling engineers to do work on your boat then I think you need to accept that you’ll be paying travel time, and likely effectively a minimum 1/2 day cost even if they’ve been clever and scheduled two jobs in the same place.

 

[KevinV]

Assuming that you are talking about an estimate, not a quote;

At a guess i'd work it out as follows:
Prep at base 0.25 hours
Travel to 0.5 hours (that he scheduled his jobs cleverly is his gain, not yours)
On-site 1.5 hours
Travel back 0.5 hours
Tidy up 0.25 hours
= 3 hours
Pushing for less than that will just make you look unreasonable in my opinion. Check your estimate that 4 hours isn't simply the minimum charge - it wouldn't be unusual.
The belt was probably just carried over from the estimate - human error - definitely raise this with them.

All opinion of course, based on very few facts, so probably worthless.

 

[Wansworth]

Most self employed are keen to provide a good service and keep the customer happy your problem could just be a simple error and misunderstanding.Are there other engineers locally that you can use next time,getting a written quote for the work,everything is a learning exercise Unfortunatly

 

[SaltyC]

They are in business to make a profit. Reasonable to expect a person to service 2 engines per day = 4 hrs ie 8 hours / day.

I could live with that, it's the hourly rate I find objectionable. Hence, I service my own engine.

Saildrive diaphragm change charged at 8 hours x 2 men. Myself and son did it In 5 hours. However, the 'employee's ' would expect a days pay.

 

[Poignard]

You wrote "the provider estimating it would take four hours.", which is not the same as saying there is a minimum charge of four hours. In the latter case you would have known that you were to be charged for at least four hours and would have had no reason to complain.

But if you think the work took less than estimated four hours, and you're not prepared to be pay for four hours, then your next move would be to write a letter setting out your complaint and what you want done to resolve it.

If you're not satisfied with the resonse you get, or you don't get one, then you have to start thinking about whether it's worth taking legal action.

 

[penfold]

Am I being unreasonable in objecting to be asked for payment for four hours?

IF they quoted 4 hours yes you are. You are at liberty to badmouth them to anyone who asks and never use their services again. Asking to be paid for a belt not changed is fraud.

 

[ridgy]

Welcome to the world of paying someone to work on your boat. DIY is the answer and for me it's really important for my confidence of going to sea that I know everything about my engine and this is entirely achieved through DIY.

 

[Stemar]

Think yourself lucky.

I booked a service for the two engines in Jazzcat. Service done, no problem. Except. The raw water pumps are both leaking and considering the cost of bits and time to refurbish them, might as well get new. Come to fit them, the nuts are so corroded, they can't be shifted with the poor access on the cat. Lift out, engines out, fit pumps. While they're out we'll give them a good clean. There's a scab of rust on one sump. Clean it off and drip, drip. Only the rust keeping the oil in. It's all genuine, I've been with the mechanic and know enough to know he isn't making it up, but if I get any change from £3K I'll be grateful.

 

[WoodyP]

The question is what did he charge, either overall or per hour, and did you stand over him while he did the job? If it was me I would add in extra for the lesson. Basically you have had half a day plus bits. He charged what he said and it's a bit late to worry now
Top mechanic scams revealed | RAC Drive

 

[sailaboutvic]

if he’d broken a bolt when servicing and spent all day sorting it out or discovered once he was there that the oil filter he brought was the wrong one / damaged or some other set back are you saying you’d have happily paid more money? If you want travelling engineers to do work on your boat then I think you need to accept that you’ll be paying travel time, and likely effectively a minimum 1/2 day cost even if they’ve been clever and scheduled two jobs in the same place.

I very much doubt if he spend a day sorted out a problem he not going to charge for it .
bottom line a service is a basic job people should be able to do them self.

 

[Wansworth]

I very much doubt if he spend a day sorted out a problem he not going to charge for it .
bottom line a service is a basic job people should be able to do them self.

Not entirely true,mentally you can do a service but depends on if your body can contort enough or your vision is ok,certainly had engines that are difficult to service

 

[ylop]

I very much doubt if he spend a day sorted out a problem he not going to charge for it .

You are probably right (although might depend if any of it was his fault), that is probably an extreme example. I guess a more likely question would be - if it took 4h20m would you have expected him to charge the 20m extra or just the 4h on the original estimate (I have known both scenarios which is why I ask the q - if it’s the sort of person who says “about 4 hr” and charges 4h regardless of whether it’s 3 or 5 that’s different form the sort of person who says “about 4h” and then presents you with an invoice for 4.3h.)

bottom line a service is a basic job people should be able to do them self.

they should but there are various reasons people might elect not to:
- time
- skills (or fear of missing something)
- hassle (making sure you have right parts for your model of engine, getting rid of the waste oil etc - I.E. the bits on top of the 1.5h on site that the OP is objecting too)
- physical mobility to contort yourself into the ridiculous space the builder put the fuel filter etc
- tools and experience if something goes wrong, like a seizes bolt

A smug “just do it yourself” answer ignores the realities of life. I do my own servicing at the moment but historically with medium sized outboards took them to get done, which had the added bonus that I was a “valued customer” so if something went wrong mid season I could drop the boat in on Monday morning and they’d find the time to have looked/sorted it by end of the week when I wanted it again. Getting that support as a random customer who only comes when something is already broken is not always easy.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Not entirely true,mentally you can do a service but depends on if your body can contort enough or your vision is ok,certainly had engines that are difficult to se

 

[Laysula]

Next time,if you don't want to do it yourself, ask around in the marina or yacht club for recommendations as to who to use and who to avoid.
Also a lot depends on the hourly rate, four hours at £30/hr is cheaper than 3 hours at £50/hr.

 

[sailaboutvic]

You are probably right (although might depend if any of it was his fault), that is probably an extreme example. I guess a more likely question would be - if it took 4h20m would you have expected him to charge the 20m extra or just the 4h on the original estimate (I have known both scenarios which is why I ask the q - if it’s the sort of person who says “about 4 hr” and charges 4h regardless of whether it’s 3 or 5 that’s different form the sort of person who says “about 4h” and then presents you with an invoice for 4.3h.)


they should but there are various reasons people might elect not to:
- time
- skills (or fear of missing something)
- hassle (making sure you have right parts for your model of engine, getting rid of the waste oil etc - I.E. the bits on top of the 1.5h on site that the OP is objecting too)
- physical mobility to contort yourself into the ridiculous space the builder put the fuel filter etc
- tools and experience if something goes wrong, like a seizes bolt

A smug “just do it yourself” answer ignores the realities of life. I do my own servicing at the moment but historically with medium sized outboards took them to get done, which had the added bonus that I was a “valued customer” so if something went wrong mid season I could drop the boat in on Monday morning and they’d find the time to have looked/sorted it by end of the week when I wanted it again. Getting that support as a random customer who only comes when something is already broken is not always easy.

I have helped to service many engines in my time cruising over winter stops and there been many times when I tried to show owners howto do it them self ,it’s not the first time I been told there not interested in learning and rather get someone to do it for them ,
in which case then pay .
changing oil, filters and impeller isn’t rocket sciences tighten up a belt isn’t hard ,
you only need basic tools we should all have on board .
there are job boat owners should be able to do .
you don’t have to be a gym freak .
there is a case to answer where someone may for some reason unable to do the job ,
maybe he only got one hand or there more to the service like injections need servicing , valve clearance,so on .
but let’s be fair , not being able to get rid of old oil or parts, not having tools or not knowing what parts they need is no excuse.

 

[Bouba]

There will be a service book giving the exact labour time for every job…so they can accurately quote for every job..if your boat is close to their depot or the access to your engine is particularly good (or the mechanic is sufficiently flexible) then they have gained some time…can just as easily go the other way

 

[Wansworth]

I have helped to service many engines in my time cruising over winter stops and there been many times when I tried to show owners howto do it them self ,it’s not the first time I been told there not interested in learning and rather get someone to do it for them ,
in which case then pay .
changing oil, filters and impeller isn’t rocket sciences tighten up a belt isn’t hard ,
you only need basic tools we should all have on board .
there are job boat owners should be able to do .
you don’t have to be a gym freak .
there is a case to answer where someone may for some reason unable to do the job ,
maybe he only got one hand or there more to the service like injections need servicing , valve clearance,so on .
but let’s be fair , not being able to get rid of old oil or parts, not having tools or not knowing what parts they need is no excuse.

No you are right and to that end my choice of boat is governed by my ability to at least service its engine.It’s the first thingIlook At and assess if with my known dexterity and physical level if I can indeed service the engine myself

 

[sailaboutvic]

No you are right and to that end my choice of boat is governed by my ability to at least service its engine.It’s the first thingIlook At and assess if with my known dexterity and physical level if I can indeed service the engine myself

I just had to change my mounts , a pig of a job , it took two days ,
A because I’m not as fit or as flexible as I use to be
B I had to end up walking 8 K to buy the spanner’s I didn’t have on board as we are cruising right now .
I guess even a very good engineer would had taken him a good day and he would had needed a mate to help him because the bolts to undo and do up is a two man job the way they are located.
two men full day work , I guessing I be looking €400 Plus bill if not a lot more .