Alternatives to starlink?

Ian_Edwards

Ian_Edwards

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Obi said:
Might be worth exploring. I have no idea on how operational it is only that it is intended to be an EU alternative to Starlink:
Satellite connectivity solutions for maritime | Eutelsat
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I'm starting a new link, so as not to hi-jack the thread on Starlink costs.
I've looked at the website for Eutesat, and it's looks like marketing BS.
There's no mention of data rates costs or T&C's.
Is it actually operational?
Any ideas of the cost to install and use?
Are there any leasure users actually using it?
Or is this a system designed for commercial shipping companies and they hoping to catch some supper yachts where money is no problem?
If it competitively price compared to Starlink, I'd be interested, Musk already has too much money and control.
 
I don't think OneWeb/Eutelsat is aimed directly at consumers.

Kuiper, from Amazon, will be a better comparison, but has only recently started launching its satellites and it's likely to build up much more slowly than Starlink.

The Chinese are also worth watching. They are setting up two different satellite internet constellations, and are launching the satellites quite rapidly. No idea yet on what the end product will look like and who can use it, or in which parts of the world it will be allowed to operate.
 
Amazon Kuiper has 102 satellites launched - but is planning 5000 plus.

Will be interesting as they're aiming for a 16x16cm dish.
 
st599 said:
Amazon Kuiper has 102 satellites launched - but is planning 5000 plus.

Will be interesting as they're aiming for a 16x16cm dish.
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They can plan all they want, until they have the capability they’re dead in the water. Starlink have both the vehicles and the deployment systems to rapidly expand and replace.
The Kuiper satelites that are up there were also launched by SpaceX which is not only embarrassing for JB but also probably not commercially viable at scale.
 
lustyd said:
They can plan all they want, until they have the capability they’re dead in the water. Starlink have both the vehicles and the deployment systems to rapidly expand and replace.
The Kuiper satelites that are up there were also launched by SpaceX which is not only embarrassing for JB but also probably not commercially viable at scale.
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Kuiper also have launch contracts with ULA and Arianespace, and once New Glen is fully operational they will be in house for launches.
But they are definitely playing catch-up, and doing it very slowly- Bezos founded his rocket company before SpaceX, but has yet to start commercial orbital launches.
 
Sea Change said:
Kuiper also have launch contracts with ULA and Arianespace, and once New Glen is fully operational they will be in house for launches.
But they are definitely playing catch-up, and doing it very slowly- Bezos founded his rocket company before SpaceX, but has yet to start commercial orbital launches.
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But isn’t that here contract shortly to expire which has a requirement to launch x-thousand satellites by a certain date?
 
chris-s said:
But isn’t that here contract shortly to expire which has a requirement to launch x-thousand satellites by a certain date?
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The expiry date is with the FAA for the spectrum allocation. It doesn't affect the launch contracts.
The spectrum permit can be extended unless another company has filed to use it.
 
wonkywinch said:
Drat, there goes any hope for any amateur astronomers.
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I hate to say it but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Physically holding a telescope and looking at stars may be fun but it’s no longer very useful as we have better ways to look upwards. Realistically amateurs are now better off using freely available data than buying telescopes.
 
Sea Change said:
Once Kessler syndrome kicks in we'll all be using SSB and sextants again anyway.
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A sextant with modern screen and processor wouldn’t be so bad. No more faff than GPS unless it’s cloudy. We’d never end up back at paper almanacs that’s for sure.
 
lustyd said:
They can plan all they want, until they have the capability they’re dead in the water. Starlink have both the vehicles and the deployment systems to rapidly expand and replace.
The Kuiper satelites that are up there were also launched by SpaceX which is not only embarrassing for JB but also probably not commercially viable at scale.
Click to expand...
Wikipedia says Kuiper's FCC license requires half the constellation (1600) to be operation by July next year. The service will launch with less than 600 satellites in service.

(Article suggests that the majority of launches are booked with providers other than SpaceX.)
 
lustyd said:
A sextant with modern screen and processor wouldn’t be so bad. No more faff than GPS unless it’s cloudy. We’d never end up back at paper almanacs that’s for sure.
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This Korean digital sextant has been around for a while now. LEEYUNG SND - Digital Sextant DS-10 it's an Astra IIIB with a clever bolt-on.

It holds the ephemeris data so no need for an almanac. A press of the button once happy with the sight and all the calculation is done without sight reduction tables. You don't even need a chronometer.

The price however reflects just how niche an item it is.
 
Jerbro said:
how about this for satellite launches…
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That can't get anything in to orbit- if you accelerated to orbital velocity whilst inside the lower atmosphere, you'd be vaporised and/or crushed by the deceleration.
At best it partially replaces the first stage, and will get the vehicle up to perhaps one fifth of orbital velocity. And that comes at the cost of having to harden the vehicle and payload against the massive acceleration
 
Sea Change said:
That can't get anything in to orbit- if you accelerated to orbital velocity whilst inside the lower atmosphere, you'd be vaporised and/or crushed by the deceleration.
At best it partially replaces the first stage, and will get the vehicle up to perhaps one fifth of orbital velocity. And that comes at the cost of having to harden the vehicle and payload against the massive acceleration
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Well, 90% of the fuel burned by a Falcon 9 is burned by the first stage. This thing gets small satellites up to 60km with kinetic energy alone, 20km from the edge of space. It's an ingenious way to get around the rocket equation. If it works, it will reduce the cost of launching small comms sats by 20x (the company claims). They've done a bunch of successful tests and raised a bunch of money this year. It's a cool idea. Let's see.
 
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Dockhead said:
Well, 90% of the fuel burned by a Falcon 9 is burned by the first stage. This thing gets small satellites up to 60km with kinetic energy alone, 20km from the edge of space. It's an ingenious way to get around the rocket equation. If it works, it will reduce the cost of launching small comms sats by 20x (the company claims). They've done a bunch of successful tests and raised a bunch of money this year. It's a cool idea. Let's see.
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Those numbers don't quite add up.
The recognised boundary of space is 100km, not 80km.
And getting to that altitude is a very minor part of the problem. It's the 25,000km/hr needed to stay up there that's the hard bit.

It's similar in some ways to air launch. Everybody thought Pegasus would revolutionise the industry, but it proved to be the most expensive and least reliable vehicle of its day. Virgin also had a go, and eventually they pulled the plug when they realised they couldn't make any money with it. Likewise Stratolaunch.

It would be cool to see it work, but I'm not holding my breath. I think the next big things will be Starship, Stoke, and possibly Neutron.
 
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