Alternative to inner forestay- an idea??

[bluedragon]

I've been thinking of adding an inner forestay to my Halcyon 27 (whilst the mast is down) so I could if necessary hoist a storm or working jib instead of the RR genoa, without all the problems of a sagging luff if just flown on a normal halyard. However...thinking back to the days when I raced Enterprises, why not a luff wire in the sail, attached to a rope tailed wire halyard, run through the spinnaker hoist (or a block on a strop from the masthead) then down the outside of the mast to a highfield lever to get the tension. I used to get so much luff tension on an Enterprise in this way that the forestay just hung there all droopy!! Any reason why this wouldn't work on a small cruiser?? There's probably a million of you out there who will tell me...but I can't see why in principle this shouldn't work and it seems simpler than the conventional inner stay solutions? Thoughts?? Has anyone tried this approach?



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[johnsomerhausen]

Your solution could be considered but you´d still want a VERY strong attachment point on deck, preferably a good b it aft of the forestay so as to bring the foresail´s center of effort well aft, both for balance and for the ease of settting it up in gale conditions
john

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[Shanty]

Problem I can see is tensioning the setup with the sail flogging away merrily - and putting a considerable load on the luff wire. Same reason that storm jibs aren't set flying.

Might work if you incorporated a Wykeham-Martin furling gear or similar?

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[mireland]

I am in the proces of coding my boat I have furlers and my surveyor suggests exactly what you are considering. I have very strong attachment at deck level - a big fairlead - and will use a block and tackle at deck level for tensioning. Secondhand storm jib from bacon sails is a possibility.

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[Benbow]

I find highfield levers quite difficult and even dangerous to use under big load, and worse under a surging load like that cause by a flapping sail in a big wind. I once saw a nasty finger injury caused by such a system on a fireball. It is hard to set it up so that it is both easy to apply and puts on enough tension. What about hooking the end of the wire onto a set of small blocks with a small travel and big mechanical advantage instead?

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[TigaWave]

After fitting one and having to use it in Biscay (It was rough...really)...a storm sail hanked on can be lashed down ready to go with impending storm, goes up without flogging quickly. All the hanks hold it from going in the water and under the bow which is sure to happen if you dont want it to.
We had a removable inner stay that attached to the same fitting/web as the roller but ~30cm behind. We connected it most of the time unless we were short tacking when it would be in the way.
A loose jib could be dangerous to get hoisted in the conditions you need it...Waves breaking over the boat....rolling 40-50 degress when waves hit. And you might be short handed. Sick or injured crew.
Think about doing it on your own with the boat on its side, and half the time you're under water?
I had my boat coded at the time I fitted mine, and I'm surprised that a loose wire luffed sail would be advised, mainly for the reasons of difficulty in getting it up and the potential hazards involved.
I hope you dont need to use it.

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[charles_reed]

It is an alternative, however, to ensure you have it adequately supported at each end it needs to be very close to the forestay at the masthead and down to the same attachment as the forestay as your foredeck is unlikely to be able to accept the point load.
You will also need to provide alternative sheeting arrangements, far closer to the centreline and just aft of the mast.
Setting it could prove a problem, in high winds you cannot afford to let a sail flog - but using rotten twine through the clew might be an answer.
Rather than using a Highfield lever I'd suggest taking it down to a 4:1 tackle to get it taut.
You will need a 2nd genoa halyard for any proposal which doesn't involve handing the roller genoa.

An alternative could be to set it over the existing rolled genoa using parrels around the furled sail - I've seen this and it goes up and sets OK, though I've no experience of use in a storm.

I've only once used my storm jib - it's too large @ 31% of foresail area for real storm conditions and prefer to use the No 3 (60%) onto the roller. This means you need to hand the genoa in plenty of time, but long-lasting storms give you plenty of warning. I can then roll the jib, which is on a long tack strop, down to postage stamp size, each roll representing about 50% of the sail area.
The tack has to be seized to the foil as it pulls too far away under foot-tension.

I use the sheet positions, a modification of the originals for the solent, allowing the clew to be moved forward well ahead of the mast.

Under this I've crossed Ceregedion Bay, from Pwllheli to Fishguard in SW 32-40. The boat was OK, but the crew (myself) was not - had to have an inguinal repair later after attempting projectile vomiting with nothing left in my stomach.

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[snowleopard]

as others have said, the big problem is the jib flogging in a big wind while you try to tension the luff. for that reason it is normal to tension the stay then hoist a hanked jib. a furling gear can also give problems- you can hoist it furled but it probably won't be possible to re-furl in a strong wind, then you have to lower it with a big heavy swivel thrashing about in the air. i've been trying to cope with a furling jib set flying like this for the last couple of seasons and it's a nightmare.

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[bluedragon]

Yes, some good points here. Particularly the hoisting and tensioning in high winds. I have to say I had more in mind anticipating the wind and getting it up early, but life doesn't always work like that does it! A No.3 on the furler sounds interesting if conditions allow...as does a block system in place of the highfield lever. I've got an old storm jib to play with. I'll try out some of the ideas next year in moderate winds and let the forum know what I find works easiest.

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[Talbot]

Dont forget that your big strong fairlead is designed to take horizontal loads, not near vertical, thus may need some additional strengthening unless there is a vertical stiffener as well.

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[fireball]

Why would you need a furler?

If this is what was open to me I'd use a 16-1 purchase - probably on the halyard led along the coach roof - if you cascade the blocks like most dinghies then it isn't too bad...
as for hoisting a flogging sail - wouldn't it be possible roll the sail up from the clew to the luff and fasten with a slip hitch (or similar). Then you can hoist and deploy when ready.... as for dropping - hopefully you will either be in port or the wind would've died down sufficiently.

I must add that I do not have a storm jib...

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[andy_wilson]

Hoisting a storm jib flying would not be too clever.

I had a spare Genoa halyard replaced with wire, it attaches to the stemhead fitting just behind the furling drum (which has a slot that helps). With this winched up bolt tight I can hank on my storm jib - also with wire luff - and winch up tight.

With plemty of tension on both I can just about eliminate a saggy luff.

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