Aldi Lithium Batteries

[Snowgoose-1]

As I only have a 30w solar panel with a basic MPT controller ,and no other form of charging, i.e. alternators, looks like I could go lithium with just a lithium compatible controller. I currently have two budget meters wired in . One for showing volts/amps/watts going in and another showing volts/amps/watts going out. It would be nice to have something to show true battery condition but I seem to manage ok.

 

[Neeves]

As I only have a 30w solar panel with a basic MPT controller ,and no other form of charging, i.e. alternators, looks like I could go lithium with just a lithium compatible controller. I currently have two budget meters wired in . One for showing volts/amps/watts going in and another showing volts/amps/watts going out. It would be nice to have something to show true battery condition but I seem to manage ok.

If you really rely on a 30w solar panel that means your electrical power demands are minuscule. You could double minuscule - by having Lithium - if you double your ability to farm amps (more solar). But you survive on minuscule - do you really need Lithium?

You can buy, from a variety of sources, really cheap shunts with equally cheap meters, which are LA compatible - but if you manage and are comfortable ..... invest your money in some decent malt whisky and relax.

Jonathan

 

[Sea Change]

As I only have a 30w solar panel with a basic MPT controller ,and no other form of charging, i.e. alternators, looks like I could go lithium with just a lithium compatible controller. I currently have two budget meters wired in . One for showing volts/amps/watts going in and another showing volts/amps/watts going out. It would be nice to have something to show true battery condition but I seem to manage ok.

I presume you mean a PWM controller?
Yes it looks like you could switch to lithium very easily if you got a new charge controller. It will likely have to be MPPT which will slightly boost the output from your panel.
A Bluetooth enabled battery will tell you everything you need to know about it, via an app.
The big advantages of lithium, even in a small setup, are that it will charge much faster and can be drained to almost totally empty without damage. It doesn't need to be taken back to 100% regularly, and the battery should last many many years.
I'm going to assume that you only use your boat occasionally, so you'd be best to adjust the charging settings to cut off charging at about 13.8v. That will mean you never actually reach 100% which is a good thing if the battery is sitting unused for any length of time.
You'll also want to install a good fuse, the gold standard is Class T but I'm guessing we're talking a very small system here so you'll probably be just fine with ANL or MRBF. Yeah I was surprised how complicated the world of fuses could be

 

[geem]

I presume you mean a PWM controller?
Yes it looks like you could switch to lithium very easily if you got a new charge controller. It will likely have to be MPPT which will slightly boost the output from your panel.
A Bluetooth enabled battery will tell you everything you need to know about it, via an app.
The big advantages of lithium, even in a small setup, are that it will charge much faster and can be drained to almost totally empty without damage. It doesn't need to be taken back to 100% regularly, and the battery should last many many years.
I'm going to assume that you only use your boat occasionally, so you'd be best to adjust the charging settings to cut off charging at about 13.8v. That will mean you never actually reach 100% which is a good thing if the battery is sitting unused for any length of time.
You'll also want to install a good fuse, the gold standard is Class T but I'm guessing we're talking a very small system here so you'll probably be just fine with ANL or MRBF. Yeah I was surprised how complicated the world of fuses could be

Don't forget NH00 fuses. They are as good as class T for a fraction of the price

 

[B27]

As I only have a 30w solar panel with a basic MPT controller ,and no other form of charging, i.e. alternators, looks like I could go lithium with just a lithium compatible controller. I currently have two budget meters wired in . One for showing volts/amps/watts going in and another showing volts/amps/watts going out. It would be nice to have something to show true battery condition but I seem to manage ok.

Depending on how you use your boat, you might see very little gain from going to Lithium, because in most scenarios I'd think your reliance on a small panel is limiting your system.
But if your system meets your needs, that may not be a problem.
So what are you hoping to gain?

One thing which might be a gain is that a small LifePO4 battery is portable and can be charged at home.

 

[Refueler]

Depending on how you use your boat, you might see very little gain from going to Lithium, because in most scenarios I'd think your reliance on a small panel is limiting your system.
But if your system meets your needs, that may not be a problem.
So what are you hoping to gain?

One thing which might be a gain is that a small LifePO4 battery is portable and can be charged at home.

+1 ....

TBH - if a persons needs are small and if that small panel is sufficient ... then whats the real need to change ? Cost is far higher than a small panel and lead acid ... for what ? To then have to buy a different controller - higher priced battery ... ??

 

[Neeves]

+1 ....

TBH - if a persons needs are small and if that small panel is sufficient ... then whats the real need to change ? Cost is far higher than a small panel and lead acid ... for what ? To then have to buy a different controller - higher priced battery ... ??

A criticism of the Aldi battery is the obvious one - no mention that Lithium is not Lead and there are differences in how you use and charge them. If you are taking a Lithium home to charge you would need a lithium charger and my guess is most people have cheap chargers at home - for their LA car battery. You now need 2 chargers at home - one for the car one for the Lithium battery.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

A criticism of the Aldi battery is the obvious one - no mention that Lithium is not Lead and there are differences in how you use and charge them. If you are taking a Lithium home to charge you would need a lithium charger and my guess is most people have cheap chargers at home - for their LA car battery. You now need 2 chargers at home - one for the car one for the Lithium battery.

Jonathan

Depends on the BMS ...

Generally - yes agreed.

 

[ylop]

The battery offer will come to an Aldi near you.

Do the middle aisle products in Aldi always end up available globally? My gut feel is that the UK market for a "battery" is too niche - but we might see the sort of "power station" that Bluetti and others sell with an integrated inverter, USB charging etc...

 

[Refueler]

Do the middle aisle products in Aldi always end up available globally? My gut feel is that the UK market for a "battery" is too niche - but we might see the sort of "power station" that Bluetti and others sell with an integrated inverter, USB charging etc...

Don't know about Aldi - they haven't appeared where I am yet.

But I was talking to Manager of Lidl in our town and he told me that 'Specials' were at discretion of each store manager ..... I was asking why they were not offering similar 'specials' as example Lidl in other towns.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Depending on how you use your boat, you might see very little gain from going to Lithium, because in most scenarios I'd think your reliance on a small panel is limiting your system.
But if your system meets your needs, that may not be a problem.
So what are you hoping to gain?

One thing which might be a gain is that a small LifePO4 battery is portable and can be charged at home.

Thanks for the replies .
I was looking at various possible advantages .

From my LA 75ah , I could go to a 50ah Lithium . I would gain more usable amps and have a weight saving of, 12kg to 5.8kg. Longevity and more charging cycles also looked attractive.

With regard to cost I am not too concerned . The Lithium battery and an Lithium rated mppt would come to around £200 . The LA 75ah leisure would be around £75.

The current location for my 30w solar panel is ideal for sun capture and I would not really have any more locations that would make it worthwhile. I am low tech with regard to instrumentation ,only light usage charging smartphone , tablet etc. My biggest drain is the autohelm, and Lithium looked a good option to obtain more flexibility , particularly trips when it has to work hard in livelier weather.

I would also mention that in my case, my 30w panel is a high quality rigid panel. I initially started using flexible low cost panels which turned out to be a false economy.

Having said all of the above, I have now gone off the idea of Lithium. At least for the time being. I have read many reviews , and although many are favorable , many are not so good. I have read two cases of poles wrongly colored and cases where only around 75% was attained rather than 100%. At the cheaper end of the market, the quality and consistency is just not there yet. I'm sure it will be some time in the future.

Using top quality high spec Lithium batteries from reliable sources is probably the best way to go at the moment but would not make economic sense for my kind of set up.

 

[geem]

Thanks for the replies .
I was looking at various possible advantages .

From my LA 75ah , I could go to a 50ah Lithium . I would gain more usable amps and have a weight saving of, 12kg to 5.8kg. Longevity and more charging cycles also looked attractive.

With regard to cost I am not too concerned . The Lithium battery and an Lithium rated mppt would come to around £200 . The LA 75ah leisure would be around £75.

The current location for my 30w solar panel is ideal for sun capture and I would not really have any more locations that would make it worthwhile. I am low tech with regard to instrumentation ,only light usage charging smartphone , tablet etc. My biggest drain is the autohelm, and Lithium looked a good option to obtain more flexibility , particularly trips when it has to work hard in livelier weather.

I would also mention that in my case, my 30w panel is a high quality rigid panel. I initially started using flexible low cost panels which turned out to be a false economy.

Having said all of the above, I have now gone off the idea of Lithium. At least for the time being. I have read many reviews , and although many are favorable , many are not so good. I have read two cases of poles wrongly colored and cases where only around 75% was attained rather than 100%. At the cheaper end of the market, the quality and consistency is just not there yet. I'm sure it will be some time in the future.

Using top quality high spec Lithium batteries from reliable sources is probably the best way to go at the moment but would not make economic sense for my kind of set up.

Or build your own from cells and a BMS for the same cost of a cheap and nasty battery. You end up with a top quality battery with Bluetooth and an active balancer for the same price

 

[Sea Change]

Thanks for the replies .
I was looking at various possible advantages .

From my LA 75ah , I could go to a 50ah Lithium . I would gain more usable amps and have a weight saving of, 12kg to 5.8kg. Longevity and more charging cycles also looked attractive.

With regard to cost I am not too concerned . The Lithium battery and an Lithium rated mppt would come to around £200 . The LA 75ah leisure would be around £75.

The current location for my 30w solar panel is ideal for sun capture and I would not really have any more locations that would make it worthwhile. I am low tech with regard to instrumentation ,only light usage charging smartphone , tablet etc. My biggest drain is the autohelm, and Lithium looked a good option to obtain more flexibility , particularly trips when it has to work hard in livelier weather.

I would also mention that in my case, my 30w panel is a high quality rigid panel. I initially started using flexible low cost panels which turned out to be a false economy.

Having said all of the above, I have now gone off the idea of Lithium. At least for the time being. I have read many reviews , and although many are favorable , many are not so good. I have read two cases of poles wrongly colored and cases where only around 75% was attained rather than 100%. At the cheaper end of the market, the quality and consistency is just not there yet. I'm sure it will be some time in the future.

Using top quality high spec Lithium batteries from reliable sources is probably the best way to go at the moment but would not make economic sense for my kind of set up.

I wouldn't buy a cheap lithium battery without scouring the reviews first. There's some dodgy stuff out there... tiny batteries in big cases, with a brick added to make it heavier.

 

[Neeves]

I wouldn't buy a cheap lithium battery without scouring the reviews first. There's some dodgy stuff out there... tiny batteries in big cases, with a brick added to make it heavier.

I had a quick look via google and cheap lithium batteries, or really cheap ones (in terms of a/h) are big the small a/h versions still seem pricey. The 'best' buy might be Renogy at stg150 for 50ah (in Oz).

 

[Neeves]

Do the middle aisle products in Aldi always end up available globally? My gut feel is that the UK market for a "battery" is too niche - but we might see the sort of "power station" that Bluetti and others sell with an integrated inverter, USB charging etc...

Part of the market in Oz is for caravans, trailers, motor homes and 4x4s that are going off grid. 10,000 people a year cross the Simpson Desert which is a one week off grid trek. The Canning Stock Route is a 4 week off grid trek. If you lose your electrics you have a big problem. You need to be self sufficient (and like blue water sailing you need an EPIRB and sat phone) The market is well developed and there is a whole new industry devoted to the supply of 'Lithium' (and Victron is a major player).

Its a big change from my exposure to camping, DofE, a few decades ago. I had had no idea that many caravans and motor homes can be completely self sufficient - and thus demanding decent battery banks. Interesting that Vango have a double induction stove - not something that will fit too well with the idea of DofE - I wonder if more motor homes etc in the UK are being equiped with house banks.

Lithium 'seems' to to be much better developed here for 'camping' than for sailing.

Jonathan

 

[ylop]

Its a big change from my exposure to camping, DofE, a few decades ago. I had had no idea that many caravans and motor homes can be completely self sufficient - and thus demanding decent battery banks. Interesting that Vango have a double induction stove - not something that will fit too well with the idea of DofE - I wonder if more motor homes etc in the UK are being equiped with house banks.

Yes I was figuring that you folks had a different style of “camping” to typical “brits”.

There is still plenty of genuine “lightweight wild camping” as you describe DoE style going on here, and increasingly even lighter weight stuff that would make DoE assessors toes curl. BUT there’s a lot more “wild camping” happening which is actually “VW T5 in a a lay-by” or huge tent 20m from the car. But the big change in terms of power I’ve noticed over the last few years is people camping in tents who pay for electrical hookup, and that campervans and caravans pretty much expect it. Really nobody is that far here from somewhere to plug in, so I think Lithium is probably harder to sell from a capacity basis. On boats, in marinas the same is true - although not at anchor / moorings.

 

[Neeves]

Yes I was figuring that you folks had a different style of “camping” to typical “brits”.

There is still plenty of genuine “lightweight wild camping” as you describe DoE style going on here, and increasingly even lighter weight stuff that would make DoE assessors toes curl. BUT there’s a lot more “wild camping” happening which is actually “VW T5 in a a lay-by” or huge tent 20m from the car. But the big change in terms of power I’ve noticed over the last few years is people camping in tents who pay for electrical hookup, and that campervans and caravans pretty much expect it. Really nobody is that far here from somewhere to plug in, so I think Lithium is probably harder to sell from a capacity basis. On boats, in marinas the same is true - although not at anchor / moorings.

Don't get me wrong - we too have lots of campsites where the caravan or motor home (and tent) can plug into mains power. But suddenly Lithium offers an alternative, you can still use the same campsite but no longer need the power from the grid - you can carry it in your motor home or caravan (both of which have a nice flat roof for the solars). If you are inclined, the island is large and empty enough to make serious treks in your 4x4 all off grid] (following routes opened by the early settlers/explorers). Its not that Brits are different, its that the opportunities are different. To make the trek across the deserts we have off road caravans to tow behind the 4x4.

The suggestion that the needs of blue water sailors are much stricter than needed for someone crossing some of our deserts does not really stand up.

I have noted the 2 man lightweight tents available now - and I went into a quiet corner and cried. I'd have given my eye teeth for that quality - I dragged my pack across Rannoch Moor for my DofE Gold - but I would not begrudge the new opportunities for those who strive - its still a decent slog. We can wild camp in our hills, or as they call them 'mountains' which are as harsh as the UK, but that is not the focus for Lithium, it does not matter that the Lithium is lighter than the lead - its still too heavy to carry on your back - you do without (power). The 'market' for Lithium is, but not exclusively, for the 4x4.

We do tend to have a climate with lots of sun, to replenish the batteries, and it can be warm (sometimes to the point of being uncomfortable .

Jonathan

 

[Beneteau381]

We mostly used pressure lanterns.

I’ve still got a twin burner Petromax. We used to use Tilley paraffin lamps when me and my old man used to work markets and fairs

 

[Neeves]

I’ve still got a twin burner Petromax. We used to use Tilley paraffin lamps when me and my old man used to work markets and fairs

Paraffin pressure lamps had the advantage of producing heat - but were impossible if you were carrying your kit on your back. Unreliable battery lamps and candle lanterns I recall.

Jonathan

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I wouldn't buy a cheap lithium battery without scouring the reviews first. There's some dodgy stuff out there... tiny batteries in big cases, with a brick added to make it heavier.

Yes. It seems to be the wild west out there for lithium batteries. I'm glad I did a fair bit of searching.

I think it would be fair to say that boat owners,generally speaking , are happy to pay the right price for a product or service. But it has to work as described and without the faff of sending it back or associated aggro .