A Man Who does not mince his words.

Shaz77 said:
If insurance companies don't like po4 there must be a reason. They seem to be well informed on world matters.
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I'm not sure it's a matter of their not liking them, they are interested in risk mitigation so are interested in ensuring, as far as is practicable, that the installation is sound. Now, quite how the owner proves that the installation is "sound" is another matter. Insurers for instance may insist on standing rigging inspection/replacement after a number of years but it doesn't mean they don't like rigging. They don't like rigging that falls down due to poor installation or maintenance and they don't like claims arising from fires due to poor battery installation or maintenance.
 
There are way too many idiots on the internet who have zero interest in learning facts and prefer to keep talking rubbish. I'd rather not be banned so wont say whether I think anyone here falls in to the idiot category but probably the YouTuber does.

LIfePo4 can catch fire - if you use a thermic lance on it - much as steel can
It will not self ignite. Full stop. Totally proven and tested over and again by fire departments etc
Insurance companies know LiFePo4 is a safe chemistry because they read all the available data

They also know people are idiots and it's become very trendy to watch YouTube and decide you can rewire a boat and build a safe charging system. I do this for a living and pretty much all I do now is LifePo for cruising boats with nice dollops of solar and DCDC and so on to charge it. I equally see people who do great DIY installs with all the correct charging and protection. Sometime I see people who have DIY installed without even the most basic understanding of science let alone marine electrical engineering .

LiFePo is safe and insurers know that . I'm positive that the reason some (few) are asking for professional checks or installations is because no one much bothered to change LA set ups on boats other than to undo the terminals when one LA died and put in a new one and hopefully got the red and black the right way round and remembered they should be tight too (many do not)
But with huge advantages of LifePo many people have been tempted to change things they don't fully understand and they can and will make mistakes. Others, like several members here have researched, bought the right kit and I believe (whilst I have not seen them in the flesh) do excellent jobs of installing LiFePo "systems" and are now much less likely to have a fire aboard their boat than ever before.

On my own boat I now have no petrol risk from outboards due to LiFePo electric outboard batteries. I have no thermal run away risks or poison gas venting risks or explosive gas venting risks due to LifePo house batteries and of course I have not gas risks as my cooking is all electric now. In every measurable way , using hard facts, science and experience my LifePo4 boat is safer than one without (unless it is an unpowered boat that uses no oil lamps etc for nav lights before the pedants come along)
 
Trident said:
There are way too many idiots on the internet who have zero interest in learning facts and prefer to keep talking rubbish. I'd rather not be banned so wont say whether I think anyone here falls in to the idiot category but probably the YouTuber does.

LIfePo4 can catch fire - if you use a thermic lance on it - much as steel can
It will not self ignite. Full stop. Totally proven and tested over and again by fire departments etc
Insurance companies know LiFePo4 is a safe chemistry because they read all the available data

They also know people are idiots and it's become very trendy to watch YouTube and decide you can rewire a boat and build a safe charging system. I do this for a living and pretty much all I do now is LifePo for cruising boats with nice dollops of solar and DCDC and so on to charge it. I equally see people who do great DIY installs with all the correct charging and protection. Sometime I see people who have DIY installed without even the most basic understanding of science let alone marine electrical engineering .

LiFePo is safe and insurers know that . I'm positive that the reason some (few) are asking for professional checks or installations is because no one much bothered to change LA set ups on boats other than to undo the terminals when one LA died and put in a new one and hopefully got the red and black the right way round and remembered they should be tight too (many do not)
But with huge advantages of LifePo many people have been tempted to change things they don't fully understand and they can and will make mistakes. Others, like several members here have researched, bought the right kit and I believe (whilst I have not seen them in the flesh) do excellent jobs of installing LiFePo "systems" and are now much less likely to have a fire aboard their boat than ever before.

On my own boat I now have no petrol risk from outboards due to LiFePo electric outboard batteries. I have no thermal run away risks or poison gas venting risks or explosive gas venting risks due to LifePo house batteries and of course I have not gas risks as my cooking is all electric now. In every measurable way , using hard facts, science and experience my LifePo4 boat is safer than one without (unless it is an unpowered boat that uses no oil lamps etc for nav lights before the pedants come along)
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And how do I or anyone else differentiate between you and what you write and the idiots? This is the internet and there's no difference between your post and any others seeking to belittle those that don't agree with them or see /understand things their way.
There are many people of all walks of life that are knowledgeable in many different aspects that may come to a forum to ask.
 
billskip said:
And how do I or anyone else differentiate between you and what you write and the idiots? This is the internet and there's no difference between your post and any others seeking to belittle those that don't agree with them or see /understand things their way.
There are many people of all walks of life that are knowledgeable in many different aspects that may come to a forum to ask.
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No one should be listening to me or you or anyone else if they are planning a LiFePo install (unless they are employing me as many do) if they are concerned about these silly fire stories that so many love to repeat with scant knowledge of much at all. They can read proper scientific studies and those carried out by fire departments etc from all over the world - if they refuse to actually research a subject then there's not much helping them. Like the girl who died of cancer recently because she refused real medicine and decided some fruitarian diet that her "guru" mother recommended was the way to go. Unlike Gove I am not tired of experts and take the time to actually read what science says not what some bloke on the internet says. Anyone who doesn't already know that LifePo is not going to burst in to flames should do the same rather than repeating Chinese whispers from some bloke on You Tube who didn't have the right facts to begin with
 
billskip said:
And how do I or anyone else differentiate between you and what you write and the idiots? This is the internet and there's no difference between your post and any others seeking to belittle those that don't agree with them or see /understand things their way.
There are many people of all walks of life that are knowledgeable in many different aspects that may come to a forum to ask.
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Trident's reply to this post is sound but I will add an additional comment. People on here do actually post facts based on personal knowledge, training and experience. They may also offer advice, again based on their personal knowledge, training and experience. Nothing says that you, I, or anyone on here needs to take action based on such posts without verifying the veracity of said post. But, having read many posts on this forum over the last number of years, I think it is quite simple to differentiate the idiots from the ones posting facts.
 
Marsali_1 said:
Trident's reply to this post is sound but I will add an additional comment. People on here do actually post facts based on personal knowledge, training and experience. They may also offer advice, again based on their personal knowledge, training and experience. Nothing says that you, I, or anyone on here needs to take action based on such posts without verifying the veracity of said post. But, having read many posts on this forum over the last number of years, I think it is quite simple to differentiate the idiots from the ones posting facts.
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We are all entitled to an opinion...
 
In the real world over a decade or two.
Helped to clear up a lead acid battery which literally exploded on Dads boat requiring a hospital attendance.
Had two lead acids explode en absentia , both cases outer casing fractured and dumping acid.
One experience of coming back into a workshop and discovering the remains of a portable Motorola VHF nicad radio battery embedded in the ceiling, walls and carpet tiles.
Took ages to clean up and bits of the battery which melted into the carpet are probably still there.
Cannot understand why these batteries have not been banned.
A diesel lorry caught fire and blocked the M25 for half a day recently.
 
Trident said:
But opinions do not overrule facts - people can opine all day long on unknowns, politics, religion etc but A is always A , the earth is not flat and cats are better than dogs :D
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The problem is of course that people have opinions about facts. And it's a fact whether someone holds a particular opinion. It's an opinion whether the fact that someone holds that opinion about a fact is helpful/harmless/amusing/ . . . .etc.

Take that to its logical conclusion and you get a radio phone-in programme about climate change - or an anchor thread.
 
jbweston said:
The problem is of course that people have opinions about facts. And it's a fact whether someone holds a particular opinion. It's an opinion whether the fact that someone holds that opinion about a fact is helpful/harmless/amusing/ . . . .etc.

Take that to its logical conclusion and you get a radio phone-in programme about climate change - or an anchor thread.
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It's common practice by some on here to mix facts with their opinion and expect people believe them.
 
It is common practice by some on here to ignore facts when they don't support their opinion. There's nothing wrong with having a different view of facts, both in terms of relevance to the subject and in terms of strength of influence. But for someone to believe that LiFePO4 batteries are the same as other forms of lithium ion chemistries when data shows that to be false, is wrong. I don't have any issue with that individual making a personal decision not to use LiFePO4 on their boat based on their own opinions but I do object if they try, with no proof to support their comments, to counter someone else's post that points out that LiFePO4 is, in fact, a safer form of battery chemistry.
 
jbweston said:
The problem is of course that people have opinions about facts. And it's a fact whether someone holds a particular opinion. It's an opinion whether the fact that someone holds that opinion about a fact is helpful/harmless/amusing/ . . . .etc.

Take that to its logical conclusion and you get a radio phone-in programme about climate change - or an anchor thread.
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Have you ever worked for the government? If not you should apply immediately. I believe Sir Humphrey has retired and left a vacancy.
 
He was brilliant wasn't he. Being able to remember and say all those lines as though he really meant them.

My post was half tongue-in-cheek and half serious. Some of these threads get tangled because some posters are talking about facts, some giving opinions, some maintaining the right to their opinions even if they aren't factually correct, some offended because they're factually correct but others don't care, etc. It can be like two tug-of-war teams pulling on different ropes.
 
Electric boat explodes while charging.
LFP Batteries
Stached Training
27000 views in 15 hours
Fire Chief/Expert
You tube.
Make up your own mind.
 
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