??A Long Term British Visitor's Brexit Survival Checklist - Post 31st Jan 2020.

[nortada]

Or, post 31st Jan – What will be my boat and my status and what will it mean?

Understand that until the end of the Transition Period (TP), 31st Jan 2021 or later, everything will stay the same. The status quo but what does this really mean?

What about my boat's VAT/IVA status?

Believe that a boat's future VAT/IVA status will be determined by it's location on Brexit Day? Does this mean on the night of 31st January 2020 or when the TP is concluded? To this end, just to be safe, I intend to ask my marina for hard copy of my boat's location on 31st Jan 20 and the TP end day. For boats at anchor would Friday night in a marina be a good move?

Will HMRC still issue T2Ls after 31st Jan 2020?

What about residency?

Registered for residency, albeit as a citizen of the EU, we understand that our residency will continue, but what of Brits who arrive later? After 31st Jan 2020, they will no longer be EU citizens so will they still be able to register for residency?

Now to healthcare?

We understand that the UK EHIC will continue throughout the TP but in addition to the EHIC, Brits, with residency can register with their local Health Centre (Centro do Saude). Will this still be possible on 1 Feb 2020? Actually, so long as the UK EHIC works and you can just walk in to the Health Centre, I see little benefit in registering with the Heath Centre? Depending on your circumstances, your situation may be different. Those in Portugal may find How to Register at the Centro de Saude, useful.

Understand it is anticipated that the UK EHIC will be valid until TP day and possibly beyond but has anybody gone ahead and got an EHIC for their host country, to use in other EU countries, post TP day and who did you apply to - the Câmara/Junta?

Long Term British Visitors are nomadic but may wish to retain their status in the UK as ordinary residents so could applying to the UK for a S1 could open up a whole bag of worms?

Then there is social care and in-country benefits, incredibly complicated, vary markedly from country to country and depend on an individual's circumstances. Tried but really haven't got my head around this one.

I am sure there are numerous other issues that, post 31 Jan 20, could leap out and bite you in the bum and appreciate different countries (and even different officials in the same jurisdiction) may/will interpret their rules differently.

Thought - we live in interesting times.

 

[Grehan]

applying to the UK for a S1 could open up a whole bag of worms.

I'd be very interesting in this concept . . . I very much understand that what looks like The Answer (to healthcare provision requirements) might have Consequences.
What might they be? What's the context to this? e.g. Does getting an S1 rob one of NHS entitlements? Or . . . ?

 

[nortada]

I'd be very interesting in this concept . . . I very much understand that what looks like The Answer (to healthcare provision requirements) might have Consequences.
What might they be? What's the context to this? e.g. Does getting an S1 rob one of NHS entitlements? Or . . . ?

Not my field so hence my observation/question. I have now modified #1 to make this more a question rather than an observation.

My understanding is, a S1 is given to elderly expats in receipt of a UK state pension, who have permanently quit the UK to see out their remaining years elsewhere

Will this bring into question their status of ordinary UK residents?

Whilst the S1 will permit them to return to the NHS for free health care or their host country can claim medical expenses from the NHS, will them declaring their permanent absence bar them from other aspects, such as voting in UK elections, direct taxation in their new host nation rather than the UK, Wills, property overseas, IHT, SSR boat registration, motor driving licences, car registration.

Likely there are other aspects. As I see it holding a S1 as a permanent expat and not compatible with the lifestyle of Long Term Visiting Boating Brits.

Speaking from a Portugal perception, a registered, resident Brit will enjoy the full benefits of the Portuguese Health Service so I don't see the benefit of holding a S1.

I look to others for clarification.

 

[jordanbasset]

Transition Period (TP), 31st Jan 2021

Just for clarification the TP ends on the 31/12/2020

 

[Tony Cross]

I'd be very interesting in this concept . . . I very much understand that what looks like The Answer (to healthcare provision requirements) might have Consequences.
What might they be? What's the context to this? e.g. Does getting an S1 rob one of NHS entitlements? Or . . . ?

I am using S1 healthcare in Greece. The S1 form that you get from the DWP comes with several pages of explanatory notes. One of those says that you should take a copy of your S1 form and take it with you if you visit the UK. That entitles you to NHS care as though you were ordinarily resident. It does not specify how long those visits may be but it does say that if you return to the UK permanently you must tell the DWP so that they stop paying your (former) host country.

As far as Greece is concerned the UK has told Greece that it wants to continue S1 healthcare and the Greeks have also indicated that post-Brexit they want to continue it as well. I don't think these kinds of country-specific reciprocal arrangements will be fully finalised until the transition period is over but I have every confidence that EU countries with sizeable numbers of their citizens living in the UK and vice-versa will want to quickly finalise ongoing reciprocal health care arrangements.

 

[nortada]

Just for clarification the TP ends on the 31/12/2020

Thanks for spotting that.

My error amended.

 

[nortada]

I am using S1 healthcare in Greece. The S1 form that you get from the DWP comes with several pages of explanatory notes. One of those says that you should take a copy of your S1 form and take it with you if you visit the UK. That entitles you to NHS care as though you were ordinarily resident. It does not specify how long those visits may be but it does say that if you return to the UK permanently you must tell the DWP so that they stop paying your (former) host country.

As far as Greece is concerned the UK has told Greece that it wants to continue S1 healthcare and the Greeks have also indicated that post-Brexit they want to continue it as well. I don't think these kinds of country-specific reciprocal arrangements will be fully finalised until the transition period is over but I have every confidence that EU countries with sizeable numbers of their citizens living in the UK and vice-versa will want to quickly finalise ongoing reciprocal health care arrangements.

Thank you for the amplification and clarification, which confirms my understanding that the S1 is for expats who live permanently out of the UK and may just visit Blighty.

Wonder which, if any, departments the DWP forwards your change of status and what, if any, action they take?

I am aware of cases in Portugal where expats who confirmed to the UK that they now resided in Portugal finding that, rather Being taxed in the UK, they started being taxed in Portugal, to their disadvantage.

 

[One A.]

Do you have to be of a certain vintage to hold an S1?

 

[Tony Cross]

Thank you for the amplification and clarification, which confirms my understanding that the S1 is for expats who live permanently out of the UK and may just visit Blighty.

Wonder which, if any, departments the DWP forwards your change of status and what, if any, action they take?

I am aware of cases in Portugal where expats who confirmed to the UK that they now resided in Portugal finding that, rather Being taxed in the UK, they started being taxed in Portugal, to their disadvantage.

So far I have not noticed any UK government (or other) department noticing that I've permanently left the UK because of my use of the S1 provisions.

As far as tax is concerned, if you are resident in another country for more than 183 days you automatically become tax resident in that country. If the country has a double-taxation agreement with the UK then you may have some leverage in arguing where you pay tax, but if not then you'll want to let HMRC know you've left...!

Do you have to be of a certain vintage to hold an S1?

You have to be receiving a UK state pension. That means over 65 mostly....

 

[One A.]

Thanks Tony.

 

[nortada]

So far I have not noticed any UK government (or other) department noticing that I've permanently left the UK because of my use of the S1 provisions.

As far as tax is concerned, if you are resident in another country for more than 183 days you automatically become tax resident in that country. If the country has a double-taxation agreement with the UK then you may have some leverage in arguing where you pay tax, but if not then you'll want to let HMRC know you've left...!
You have to be receiving a UK state pension. That means over 65 mostly....

Thanks for this reassurance.

Primarily, as the title suggests, this thread is for Brits who wish to spend long periods out of the U.K. (on their boats or in their mobile homes) but wish to retain some links with the U.K.

Portugal has a double taxation agreement with the U.K. but if you spend longer than 183 days per annum in Portugal you will be classed as a Portuguese tax resident and required to file a Portuguese Tax Returnand pay tax in Portugal on income derived in Portugal. If you wish you can elect to be taxed in the Portugal rather than the U.K. Due to a systems it can be better for those receiving a U.K. government pension to pay their tax in Portugal.quirk of the system

I wonder how many others EU counties have a double-tax agreement with the U.K. At a guess most of them.

 

[jordanbasset]

The UK has a tax treaty with Spain but you would pay significantly more income tax if you were taxed in Spain
Spain’s tax rates for 2019 -

• Up to €12,450: 19%
• €12,450–€20,200: 24%
• €20,200–€35,200: 30%
• €35,200–€60,000: 37%
• More than €60,000: 45%

It is one reason why some immigrants from the UK are reluctant to become resident

 

[Grehan]

my understanding that the S1 is for expats who live permanently out of the UK

Can anyone confirm that for sure? (beyond 'understanding')
And if so, I guess I also need to ask, how is 'permanently' defined? (e.g more than the 6 months measure?)

 

[GTom]

What about my boat's VAT/IVA status?

Believe that a boat's future VAT/IVA status will be determined by it's location on Brexit Day? Does this mean on the night of 31st January 2020 or when the TP is concluded? To this end, just to be safe, I intend to ask my marina for hard copy of my boat's location on 31st Jan 20 and the TP end day. For boats at anchor would Friday night in a marina be a good move?

Will HMRC still issue T2Ls after 31st Jan 2020?

Hope the deadline will be the end of the TP and not this Friday!

Where the recreational boat has been released for free circulation at import in the EU or has been manufactured in the EU, it has obtained the customs status of Union goods.
After the UK's withdrawal from the EU or the end of the transition period in case a Withdrawal Agreement with a transition period is concluded, in general, any goods in the customs territory
of the UK will lose their Union status and will become UK goods.

Logic is rarely useful in legal matters, but that's all what we got now. If NOTHING changes during TP, then the only date relevant to any business/tax/status matters is the end of TP.

 

[nortada]

Can anyone confirm that for sure? (beyond 'understanding')
And if so, I guess I also need to ask, how is 'permanently' defined? (e.g more than the 6 months measure?)

A very good question, which I too have asked but never got beyond, ‘well having no fixed abode or significant assets in the U.K. not being on an electoral roll and demonstrating clearly no intention of returning to live in the U.K.’

Sounds a bit like changing domicile status but that is another issue, which is outside the purview of this thread.

Possibly getting a S1 is part of the demonstration of leaving but I understand that part of the S1 deal is the holder can return to the U.K. for free NHS care.

All rather confusing, hence my use of ‘understanding’.

As a Long Term Visitor, who intends to maintain a strong presence in the U.K., I have no need of a S1.

 

[Graham376]

if you spend longer than 183 days per annum in Portugal you will be classed as a Portuguese tax resident and required file a Portuguese Tax Returnand pay tax in Portugal on income derived in Portugal.

My wife is a citizen and I have permanent residence, tax authorities told us not to bother filing tax returns as we have no income or bank interest there. Don't have an S1 as we are still ordinarily resident and pay taxes in UK.

In #3 , you mentioned wills. Most EU countries have signed up to Brussels 4 which allows a declaration in wills, specifying under which country's law you wish your estate to be handled. Although UK isn't a signatory, Portugal is, which is what matters if property owner there. Not sure whether a boat based there counts as property. What Brussels IV means for wills and inheritance in Europe

 

[Graham376]

Can anyone confirm that for sure? (beyond 'understanding')
And if so, I guess I also need to ask, how is 'permanently' defined? (e.g more than the 6 months measure?)

Planning your healthcare

 

[jordanbasset]

Planning your healthcare

Very useful

 

[Tony Cross]

Can anyone confirm that for sure? (beyond 'understanding')
And if so, I guess I also need to ask, how is 'permanently' defined? (e.g more than the 6 months measure?)

When I applied for my S1 I called the DWP from here in Greece, they specifically asked me on what date I left the UK but they didn't ask for how long I would be out of the UK and they didn't ask if it was permanent. However, the S1 form itself says that it's '...for healthcare in your State of residence' which implies permanent residence. The guidance notes that come with the S1 form talks about '...if you or any family member should return to the UK to live...' so it's pretty clear that the intention of the S1 is that you are living (and thus resident) elsewhere than the UK.

 

[25931]

Speaking from a Portugal perception, a registered, resident Brit will enjoy the full benefits of the Portuguese Health Service so I don't see the benefit of holding a S1.

I look to others for clarification.
[/QUOTE]

and if you have an accident across the border in Spain and are incapacitated ?