A fun bluewater boat around 40'?

[papaver19]

Struggling to find 'my perfect boat', so I thought I would ask the hive mind. I guess it's a common question, but everyone looking to circumnavigate on these forums seems to gravitate to 45'+ and that is far too big for me - I mostly singlehand, with occasional visitors and friends, but never more than 3 on-board.

Currently I have a 37' Westerly Typhoon. She is great fun to sail, responding to every tweak and benefitting massively from new Hydranet sails. Unfortunately she is basically a PITA on long passages - just too dynamic after 5 days 'out there'. I've put 10,000 miles on her, currently in the Canaries and my evil plan was Brazil -> Cape Town -> Oz -> Pacific. I guess that I am a slow learner, but I have come to accept that she is clearly not the boat for that.

Happily I find myself with a couple of hundred thousand pounds burning a hole in my pocket, so looking to upgrade to something more suitable - less dynamic, but still fun to sail (i.e. no Island Packets and other barges with sails). Around 40-41' tops (so I can still take off the sails on my own when necessary & poles etc are still human-sized). Aft cockpit (CC just not my thing), no furling mainsails (increasingly hard to avoid these days), fin or long fin (not a long keel kinda guy)

The Dutch seem to have a lot of good boats, but often look like a hospital down below (love my cosy teak on the Typhoon). Koopmans? Some Van der Stadts. Hard to find a Contest which is small enough without being really old. Wauquiez used to be great, but lost the plot with the deck saloons & the good ones are too dated now. Malo, if I could find a 37-40 without a furling main. Part of me wants an RM, but I know that is my evil side ;-) I was getting enthused about the Canadian Saga 409, until I discovered the flex issues. Also not keen on twin wheels and the windows are too big (and leak).

Hoping there is something out there that I missed.

 

[ashtead]

I would suggest a moody41ac but we have twin wheels so fail the test. Most modern boats at 12-13m have twin wheels so you might be looking for an older rustler 42 but not perhaps not that quick save in a breeze . Maybe a look at a few halcyon yacht delivery vids will give some ideas. I guess the choices in canaries are limited but Hinckley seem to make solid boats if in US.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There is no reason why you can't singlehand a bigger boat than 40' if you equip it correctly.

It wouldn't cost a lot within your budget to convert a boat with inmast reefing to slab reefing if you can find a boat that you like and that's the only drawback.

Not sure if you want new but perhaps you should be looking at secondhand.

On one hand you recognise that a modest performance boat is not one for singlehanded long voyages but then still talk of a boat that is fun to sail and mention one that would be a positive PITA to do what you want. Do you want to race or cruise? what do you expect your daily milage to be?

Personally I would be looking at some American yachts where I think that without importing into Europe you get a bigger bang for your buck.
Pacific Seacraft 40 perhaps maybe too traditional for you though.

 

[papaver19]

Hi ashtead, thanks for the quick reply. I did see this 41ac - MOODY 41 CLASSIC sailing yacht for sale | De Valk Yacht broker - but ruled it out for the furling main. I can live with twin wheels if I have to, since the 'perfect boat' seems not to exist. I am totally happy to travel anywhere to look at the right boat, so definitely no limiting myself to the Canaries! Lovely boats the Rustlers, but a bit old skool for me

 

[papaver19]

Fr Hackett - I'd assumed that a furling main was an enormous pain to change - new mast time, since that mandrel has to go & then you have the huge slot to fill. I should probably stop assuming and look into it - thanks! yes, only looking secondhand - £200k doesn't buy you much new & hoping for all the long-range goodies added by previous owners already

 

[dunedin]

Previous generation Dehler 40? Waquiez 40 aft cockpit?
Blow the budget and get an Xc38 ? Or X40 but perhaps a bit too sporty.

PS I thought I didn’t want twin wheels, but 25k miles later I was wrong. Most miles are done under autopilot, so only use wheels when sailing for fun, or for manoevering, where twin wheels are perfect. And better access to stern when at anchor/moored.

 

[papaver19]

I like the idea of something like a 38SQ, but I think it's just a modern Typhoon, so I would be back to square one. The twin-wheel objection is mostly a complication/cable thing, not actually in practice - like you I find myself only standing behind the wheel/s when entering or leaving port - 90% of the time the autopilot or Hydrovane does the job. Just more to go wrong. So twins is the most flexible of my red lines, I guess.

 

[Tranona]

Fr Hackett - I'd assumed that a furling main was an enormous pain to change - new mast time, since that mandrel has to go & then you have the huge slot to fill. I should probably stop assuming and look into it - thanks! yes, only looking secondhand - £200k doesn't buy you much new & hoping for all the long-range goodies added by previous owners already

You are right. It is a very expensive business as the masts and booms are completely different as is the sail. On a 12m boat you would be looking at the thick end of £30k. Is your objection to in mast on performance or reliability? Maybe you should ponder why most of the boats you might otherwise consider suitable are fitted with in mast furling - have all the original owners got it wrong?

 

[papaver19]

Performance and reliability both, actually. I have seen several boats come into harbour with shredded mains due to jammed furlers - most recently on a 60', ouch, plus I enjoy using all the sail shaping controls available to me - mast bend, outhaul, Cunningham etc & would miss all the potential tweaking. £30k to change would definitely put me off - thanks

 

[Tranona]

Performance and reliability both, actually. I have seen several boats come into harbour with shredded mains due to jammed furlers - most recently on a 60', ouch, plus I enjoy using all the sail shaping controls available to me - mast bend, outhaul, Cunningham etc & would miss all the potential tweaking. £30k to change would definitely put me off - thanks

You will no doubt have also seen plenty of in mast that do not have any problems such as you describe, as well as people with old style rigs that have problems. There is a lot you can do with modern in mast sails to eliminate most of the negative aspects from a performance point of view. Somewhat odd that you are looking for an easier sailing boat than your present but ruling out one of the major developments that make larger long distance boats so much more effective. Just saying.....

 

[papaver19]

I know, I am a bag of contradictions, which is why I am still looking Looking for easier sailing only from the hull dynamics point of view - I am very happy to fiddle with sails until the cows come home

 

[Tranona]

If you are happy fiddling with sails then you will have no problems with in mast as any problems are almost always operator error rather than any failure of the equipment.

Not buying a boat is probably more fun than buying and cheaper!

 

[KompetentKrew]

I have a Van De Stadt Caribbean 40 which I singlehand - with the hard dodger it's very practical for offshore. I think they have only ever been made as one-offs, so each is individual, although I think the yard that built mine did several. Not sure how "fun" it is, as I mostly have it on tillerpilot.

Am surprised you're not looking first at other Westerys. Mind you, although I've never been on a Typhoon, I'm surprised to read she's such a handful.

 

[Obi]

If it was me I would go for older but higher quality, something like Najad, Oyster, Lots of very good reasons. Moody too as already mentioned. There is always a market for such yachts and they tend to last longer in better condition than the more mid-cost yachts.

I sailed a 39'11.5 single handed, with skeg hung rudder and fin keel, cutter rig and not especially well set up for solo, but manageable.

I'm aiming for 45-50 next and this will be for solo sailing too.

One of the most relaxing "motions of a yacht on the water" is felt on an Oyster IMO.

 

[MisterBaxter]

When you say 'too dynamic', do you mean that the motion is too lively for comfort, or that the boat lacks course stability? Or both?
I should say that I have no useful knowledge to contribute re your actual question, I'm just interested...

 

[geem]

I know, I am a bag of contradictions, which is why I am still looking Looking for easier sailing only from the hull dynamics point of view - I am very happy to fiddle with sails until the cows come home

I am with you on inmast. Its a marmite thing. I love the simplicity of slab reefing, all done at the mast. Vectran sails for good shape.
You can't beat full battens when the wind is light and there is an ocean swell running. Trying to keep wind in the sails with an inmast mainsail is impossible in those conditions.
It's nice to hear from somebody with similar experience to me who understands the hull dynamics issue of lightweight twitchy boats. Great for coastal cruising but not at home in the ocean environment.
Good luck with you search. I can't think of any 40 footers that would be a perfect match for you. It's a common problem now all production boats are optimised for a totally different market

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Rival 41, aft cockpit or centre cockpit. A few on the market post upgrade, exceptional value for money and with the shape and living space for ocean voyaging and marina, at anchor living.

Rival 41 AC for sale UK, Rival boats for sale, Rival used boat sales, Rival Sailing Yachts For Sale Rival 41AC - Apollo Duck

I have no association with the seller.

 

[B27]

If you want 'fun to sail' without 'being too much a lively little boat when you're out there', it sounds like a bigger boat is the answer.
The small-medium 'blue water boats' don't seem to be a lot of 'fun' for local sailing in nice weather.

 

[ashtead]

Not all Moody41ac have in mast -it’s an option if you prefer convenience and smaller main. We preferred stack pack and have no issues with it . If however our sail area was larger on a bigger boat say an xc45 which will be out of budget then would go with it. At 40 you are on cusp. Another 41 type is a secondhand Arcona 412 if you can live with the mainsheet location and what is a more lively boat I suspect than a Moody but again will be out of budget I suspect. Clearly in a newer yacht you can drop from cockpit as lines run back so quite quick compared to inmast drop wind in -just need to ensure enough space to head to wind of course -certainly would stick with what you want initially though and not waste budget on conversion. Personally I like build quality of Contest but note comments re size etc.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You are right. It is a very expensive business as the masts and booms are completely different as is the sail. On a 12m boat you would be looking at the thick end of £30k. Is your objection to in mast on performance or reliability? Maybe you should ponder why most of the boats you might otherwise consider suitable are fitted with in mast furling - have all the original owners got it wrong?

With a 200K and a bit budget £30K for changing if he can find an older Malo in the £160K region is not out of the question but as you say in mast or in boom should not be a show stopper most boats circumnavigating or seriously cruising will have one or the other and for a single hander make a lot of sense. The OP is fixated on performance but doesn't want the downside of managing and living on a performance orientated boat and if he thinks a Typhoon ( one of Westerlies better boats) is a PITA he will find a lot of modern boats are worse on an ocean voyage.