A fall in boat prices on horizon?

[Bobc]

Its a big mystery where people are getting the money from since MEWing went out of fashion. If the numbers are small then I guess as I said even in a recession some people do well, maybe there are enough of them to prop this up. For now.

But this is just the top end of new and nearly new. When I said I didn't think inflation would increased used boat prices I was more thinking about the price of out of production older boats that have settled in price over the years. There's a range for what people expect to pay for a certain model of boat. I can't see why inflation, with the pressure that puts on people's spending, would increase their price. House prices are falling despite inflation of building materials and other costs and houses are an essential not a luxury, they are in short supply as well.

The price of MABs will likely drop as most owners of these older boats are sailing on a shoestring to start with, and are more likely to be affected by inflation and the cost of living. I am already seeing boats from the 60s and 70s being literally given away, as things start to bite.

Jaguar 27 for £2.5k?
Hunter Sonata for £750?

Just two I've seen this week.

 

[Adios]

The price of MABs will likely drop as most owners of these older boats are sailing on a shoestring to start with, and are more likely to be affected by inflation and the cost of living. I am already seeing boats from the 60s and 70s being literally given away, as things start to bite.

Jaguar 27 for £2.5k?
Hunter Sonata for £750?

Just two I've seen this week.

OP should have specified which end of the market he was thinking about.

Mooring costs are likely a big factor in people selling and ironically it could be lack of mooring availability that lowers the pool of potential buyers. I've just checked my position on the marina waiting list and its stubbornly long still. 20 people ahead of me who would buy that boat for sale in the marina, but can't until he has sold it and moved it off the marina...

 

[dgadee]

The price of MABs will likely drop as most owners of these older boats are sailing on a shoestring to start with, and are more likely to be affected by inflation and the cost of living. I am already seeing boats from the 60s and 70s being literally given away, as things start to bite.

Jaguar 27 for £2.5k?
Hunter Sonata for £750?

Just two I've seen this week.

These boats are too small. You see new buyers going for 40 footers and above. Smaller boats can be picked up for a song. My club recently offered a 24 footer for £50. I don't know if it sold - had everything needed. Back in the early 1980s when I bought a 24 footer it cost me £5k. The market is not just "boats" but divided into certain sizes of boat. I also wonder how old 45 footers and above sell: the costs of renovation must be huge.

Boats can increase in value. Not too small, not too big. But they need money to keep them updated so it's not a way to make a profit.

I am away from high mooring charges, but presume if you are prepared to put up with it, I suspect you can always find a cheaper mooring as I did in my early sailing days (on the south coast)

 

[Bobc]

These boats are too small. You see new buyers going for 40 footers and above. Smaller boats can be picked up for a song. My club recently offered a 24 footer for £50. I don't know if it sold - had everything needed. Back in the early 1980s when I bought a 24 footer it cost me £5k. The market is not just "boats" but divided into certain sizes of boat. I also wonder how old 45 footers and above sell: the costs of renovation must be huge

Too small for who?

There were very few 45fters in the 60s and 70s. Most volume production boats were 20-30ft. Anything over 30ft was considered a big boat.

 

[dgadee]

Too small for who?

There were very few 45fters in the 60s and 70s. Most volume production boats were 20-30ft. Anything over 30ft was considered a big boat.

Yes, I well remember 5 of us (a mixed crew, no-one related) going off for a two week cruise of France in a 30 footer. Who would do that now? In fact not many would cruise for a long weekend in anything less than 30 foot with two onboard. There is a different market for these smaller boats - racing around the buoys. And racing fleets have severely depleted since the 1980s.

 

[Bobc]

Yes, I well remember 5 of us (a mixed crew, no-one related) going off for a two week cruise of France in a 30 footer. Who would do that now? In fact not many would cruise for a long weekend in anything less than 30 foot with two onboard. There is a different market for these smaller boats - racing around the buoys. And racing fleets have severely depleted since the 1980s.

The French still do

 

[dgadee]

The French still do

The French are, by and large, keener sailors than the Brits. And they are a lot younger, too. But they would have to pay VAT to buy a UK boat unless, like mine, it was in NI on Brexit day.

 

[Bobc]

The French are, by and large, keener sailors than the Brits. And they are a lot younger, too. But they would have to pay VAT to buy a UK boat unless, like mine, it was in NI on Brexit day.

VAT on £750 is hardly going to stop anyone, but there are plenty of old cheap boats in France.

 

[Adios]

These boats are too small.

I am away from high mooring charges, but presume if you are prepared to put up with it, I suspect you can always find a cheaper mooring as I did in my early sailing days (on the south coast)

I'm expecting medium size boats to start falling in price too. Its just the gleaming new white ones that appeal to the wealthy. Sailing purists I guess.

If you need a boat to be family sized you find those cheaper moorings don't apply. Around here anyway (south west) any swinging mooring that's available is for max around the 25ft mark. Some bigger ones exist but being cheaper than a marina the waiting list is even longer.

 

[dgadee]

VAT on £750 is hardly going to stop anyone, but there are plenty of old cheap boats in France.

Yes, but VAT too on new sails, new outboard, perhaps new rigging. And then there's the rest of the bits needed to clean up an old boat. And it is still not worth a lot.

 

[Bobc]

Yes, but VAT too on new sails, new outboard, perhaps new rigging. And then there's the rest of the bits needed to clean up an old boat. And it is still not worth a lot.

I've no idea what your argument here is. The thread is about whether boat price are likely to fall or not, not whether the French want to buy our old boats.

As I said, there are plenty of old boats already in France, and the French are more than happy to use them.

 

[dgadee]

I've no idea what your argument here is. The thread is about whether boat price are likely to fall or not, not whether the French want to buy our old boats.

As I said, there are plenty of old boats already in France, and the French are more than happy to use them.

Buying an old boat is not just the cost of the boat. It will need updated. And after spending money on a small boat you will still have a not very valuable item. A larger boat is a better bet for retaining some value after updating. Thus, there is a size of boat where prices may never rise (or fall) in value because they are too small for today's buyer's market. Is that clearer?

 

[ashtead]

Well I was offered a nice little Chris craft yesterday down with the river folk at Henley but where would I use it for 45k .Looked like there were plenty of lovely old boats out there which had been lovingly restored with larch on oak types etc. curiously a fleet of aqua cars as well and other types other amphibious vehicles . It seems that as said some pockets of the market thrive while others languish with few new entrants picking up the sails fish 18 /formula one type entry day boat. I just really wondered if an absence of buoyant property market/increasing school fees /higher unemployment plus other non mentionable factors would lead to a more realistic market price for secondhand RIB in fact as a small RIB say 5.5m /6m seemed like on a trailer seemed like a way of exploring new places but they do seem a lot currently .

 

[Bobc]

Well I was offered a nice little Chris craft yesterday down with the river folk at Henley but where would I use it for 45k .Looked like there were plenty of lovely old boats out there which had been lovingly restored with larch on oak types etc. curiously a fleet of aqua cars as well and other types other amphibious vehicles . It seems that as said some pockets of the market thrive while others languish with few new entrants picking up the sails fish 18 /formula one type entry day boat. I just really wondered if an absence of buoyant property market/increasing school fees /higher unemployment plus other non mentionable factors would lead to a more realistic market price for secondhand RIB in fact as a small RIB say 5.5m /6m seemed like on a trailer seemed like a way of exploring new places but they do seem a lot currently .

I suspect there will be some forced sellers of ribs in the future, as for most people they are just toys and will be the first thing to go.

 

[jac]

I suspect there will be some forced sellers of ribs in the future, as for most people they are just toys and will be the first thing to go.

The only thing about a Rib though ( especially one on a trailer) is that the ongoing costs are minimal - maybe some insurance. So if peoples costs have gone up, selling the rib will save little per month( albeit the capital injection may be useful)

Compare that to even a small boat, kept afloat where hundreds if not thousands a year still pour out of bank accounts. With interest rates going up, Fuel bills high etc, i can 100% understand why such owners may feel the need to cut back.

Loans may of course complicate the picture but i suspect that even in that case, the monthly costs are not too painful

 

[st599]

VAT on £750 is hardly going to stop anyone, but there are plenty of old cheap boats in France.

The VAT might not, but the cost of testing for the new UKCA spec and the costs of rectifying if it fails may well do. Probably talking a new engine at least to pass the emissions regs. https://www.rya.org.uk/news/rya-and...tial-new-costs-of-trading-second-hand-vessels

 

[Bobc]

The VAT might not, but the cost of testing for the new UKCA spec and the costs of rectifying if it fails may well do. Probably talking a new engine at least to pass the emissions regs. https://www.rya.org.uk/news/rya-and...tial-new-costs-of-trading-second-hand-vessels

It wasn't me that made the stupid suggestion that the French would come over and buy up our scrappers.

 

[Adios]

It wasn't me that made the stupid suggestion that the French would come over and buy up our scrappers.

Shame really. We could do with clearing out some marina space of those unused follies.

 

[oldgit]

A increasingly divided market in the used boat department.
A nice cared for ready to go modern (ish) boat around 12 -13 M , will still sell pretty quickly even up around the £100K + mark.
Any example of an earlier size of once popular boats, 10M or so will be hard to shift, most needing work to a greater or lesser extent.
Fixer uppers often having to be given away to get them off the pontoons, many having not been touched by owners for years other than to try to prevent them sinking.
This task sometimes seems to be left to surrounding boat owners.

 

[Moonbeam]

Speaking recently to a friend who is a big UK broker I was told they have sold 6 in the last month. I was not told at what price but all were advertised at crazy prices (IMHO) and they have been getting near such prices for the last year. A friend just sold his 40 year old cat (refurbished to a very high standard a few years back) for £30K more than the last one sold for a couple of years ago and it was for sale for less than 4 weeks.

Anecdotal for sure, but it seems prices and sales of second hand cats at least are holding up very well - and when you consider the big names like Outremer are taking new orders for 2028 now, with no idea what the price will be then (but £40K or so down now please to hold a slot ) its no wonder second hand are still attractive . In fact in spring I saw a 5 year old Outremer sell for £200K over the current new price because people don't want to wait 5 years.

Whether the same is true for the AWB from the main manufacturers I don't know but I would guess that for monohulls the likes of Halberg, Niad and Swan will not be seeing reductions any time soon

Outremers and other modern cats... lovely boats, I'd love to own one myself... but that will have to be in another life.

I've no doubt that area of the market is still strong, but it's very niche, million pound plus territory. To be happy putting down £40k for delivery in 2028 not knowing what the final price will be, that takes deep pockets. Same will be true for the high end monohull builders.

My comments earlier in this thread relate to AWBs both power and sail, essentially the usual Ben/Jen/Bav suspects, £300k-ish new or less and down to second hand AWBs and MABs at the middle and bottom end of the market. The kind of boat that most people can reasonably aspire to owning either new or used at some point.

But your anecdotes are still interesting to the discussion. Always good to hear what's going on in all parts of the market.