A cat or mobo which is the best buy?

[trouville]

Ive been tempted so very many times to buy a catamaran ive seen several 8/9 meters but no standing head room!!How i used to ask myself can anyone liveaboard without?Impossiable!!

But dont cats tip over when its F5 or above?So many around the world ones have summersalted or just inverted. What happens if theres a bad chop or sailing from Elba to Via Reggio with a beam swell of 3/4 meters? The waves arnt to steep but one hull would be up and the other very down?????

In a mono hull you just notice the stress on the sheet as the wave goes past.If your looking not reading a book or makeing tea then you fell the thing woosh under!No tipping! But on a cat??? what would happen

Then down wind would a cat be so fast it would plung and stop with a crash before ??

In an anchorage i look at the catamarans with there owners enjoying their comfort found on much much bigger boats worse still cats go where even i cant!!Though there are a few places that cats are to wide to get into!!!

And antifouling thats just not neccassary they just sit almost on the beach and clean off!!Ive seen them even a very bigone!

Ive enjoyed a few glasses of wine so feel that i want to ask becouse i would like a catamaran (i think) but am very afraid to take the step.

Ive just seen one for a good price!Catalac i think its called no one knew exactly and its 11000 euros which is a lot?

Why or a mobo? Becouse they also have a lot of room shallow draft and are very quick!And comfortable and from what ive seen of cats they just open the head sail and zoom off just as i would start my engins in a mobo and leave.

Should i buy a mobo??umm theres no sail and travelling becomes a question of cost,Very very comfortable though and what a wonderful tune when the engins are in tune!!ummmm If only i wasent so economicaly challanged!!

A Landrover!!umm Wekk ive got one of those and im very happy with that sooo??

 

[dom]

I don't have much experience of cruising cats. However, I test sailed a Dragonfly 920 tri a few weeks ago. It was a truly superb boat to sail - fast but manageable. I should add though that the water was flat with wind about 15kts so conditions not exactly testing. Accommodation was good although only barely standing room below for a 5' 10" crew.

 

[snowleopard]

The difference between a Catalac and a Dragonfly is about the same as between a Land Rover and a Porsche 911. (Sorry Talbot!)

 

[dom]

Clearly I don't know this market well! Nevertheless the Dragonfly 920 is marketed as a cruising boat - they have two types regular and ultimate. To be honest the boat did not seem to me to be full on at all. The cruising speeds were effortlessly in the mid teens and the boat was really very easy to steer and handle. Now what I don't know is how much of a handful these are in a blow or a seaway. That said many people seem to happily travel far and wide on them.

 

[Talbot]

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between a Catalac and a Dragonfly is about the same as between a Land Rover and a Porsche 911. (Sorry Talbot!)

[/ QUOTE ]
Totallly agree, but if you were living aboard permanently, The Catalac offers much more space and liveaboard quality - especially if it is a 9m.

 

[cameronke]

I SO want a tri.

They fascinate me.

Cameron

 

[Talbot]

Trouville

There has been a lot of very misinformed talk about catamarans designed for cruising.

The older designs tend to be very substanially built with a small sail area. Thus light wind performance is poor, but bad weather capability is surprising. They are at their most vulnerable sailing downwind too quickly, when they could in very bad conditions suffer a pitchpole, but it is not that difficult to slow them down! The 9m Catalac has a better designed interior and higher freeboard, and can handle force 5 without even reefing. I have held full sail up in 32 kts apparent, although I would normally reef in mid 20s.

IMHO the Catalac 9m has one of the best interiors for its size, However, they are not good performers to winward. most owners would tack happily if the tide was with them (I normally sail with apparent wind at 45 degrees, rising to 50 degrees in bad weather), but if the tide is against, we either anchor or put on the engine.

Now if the boat you found was a Catalac, at the price you quoted, it would have to be an early one and also be in bad condition. A good 9m will cost 48,000 Euro

If you want more data, let me know

 

[Bajansailor]

Trouville, Dogwatch has standing headroom in his Heavenly Twins cat - ok, standing if you are 5'7" or less....... he has posted some very useful info about cats on his website, and also on the thread ref ideal size for a cruising yacht.
On this thread there is a link to John Passmore's account of how he survived capsize of his HT in a F 10 off the Shetlands - these were conditions where a monohull would have had a good chance of being overwhelmed or foundering.
Also a link to Richard Woods account of how Eclipse survived a storm in the Pacific.

And of course there are mobo cats as well as raggie cats...... I think their merits have been extensively discussed elsewhere on here already.

 

[trouville]

OH! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I was wandering about and ive seen it several times it had a for sale sign on it i was "told" the price it is very old and in quite a bad state with chips out cracks and very dull.

Im not even sure if its 8 or 9 meters not bigger.It dose have 2 solar panels and is for sale from a Austrian that needs the money that i know becouse hes bought an 12 meter steel monohull haveing first bought this now for sale.

I think ill have to wake up a bit look at the prices down hear get hold of him and have a look.I thought at that price it was a bit expensive!!!!!!????I saw one in Corsica about 10 years ago and that was going for £6000 whic is a bit less!!

When and where were they first made?Are there things that should be "looked" at other than generall condition?

I must admit i was just dreaming as i tend to do when i walk around the port but i did like the idea of a catameran and when i was told the price (if its correct) i did become more interested though i am quite happy as i am as i have no financial difficulties at all with a FB cost wise all is well so it would be a wrench to change to something at this second not financialy thought out mooring running wise.

I posted becouse i really like the idea of buying her and moveing aboard but find out a lot more andthe owners gone home for christmas and will be trying to sell the catameran to his family and freinds and has advertised it in Boots borse.The Capitanerie will? give me his phone number though! 48000 euros?!! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gifGosh!Then it will probably cost far more than i was told oh well!They are nice though!Ive always liked these when ive seen them a good size not to big not to small and look good.

 

[Bajansailor]

There are three Catalacs in Barbados - two x 9m and one 8m.

One of the 9m cats is in a rather sorry state - she has been knocking around in the fishing harbour for the past 7 or 8 years, and has sunk at least twice, but her owner refuses to sell her, saying that he is going to 'do her up'........ My pal Tony put in what we thought was a very reasonable offer of US$ 3,000 to him for this vessel, but he was not keen.... oh well, he might change his mind in another year or 2....

I shall sit on the fence now, and offer this opinion : There are many very fine motor and sailing multihulls in existence, similarly motor and sailing monohulls, and they all have their merits and their eccentricities.

And I would go so far as to say that ALL multihulls and monohulls that are properly designed and constructed, are well maintained,and are equipped with the basic minimum safety equipment while being manned by competent persons are inherently very seaworthy.

 

[Talbot]

9m has a step in the hull

and interior looks like:

First made in late 60s. let me know whether she is an 8 or a 9m and I will give you more data.

 

[JIMCAT]

Yes sailing a catamaran is the best way to enjoy life afloat. After 22 years and over 100000 miles in our Spindrift 45 'Lock Crowther' design[I have no doubts. To achieve the dream it took 8years and 10000 hours to build. The comfort safety and performance we have enjoyed over the years have made the past efforts worth while. Our early experiences with monohulls and Trimarans led us to the cat for our 'escape' from England.color:black] </span>

 

[boatmike]

Bad news for you Trouville. Probably get crucified for this but cats don't have enough headroom and don't really sail very well until you get to about 10 metres and above. Then they start getting expensive. Catalacs are OK but they don't go to windward very well, There are some older bargains, especially Prout Quests and others but they would require a little work probably. One big advantage is indeed comfort. With two hulls you can anchor up anywhere reasonable and have a comfortable night without going into marinas. With a Mobo you will roll about like a pig and have to hide in marinas all the time. And you have to buy loads of diesel to go anywhere. Not good! Don't worry about seakeeping though. Most are very safe, including Catalacs. If you see a particular boat you like, post again. Lots of Cat people on here. Not just me. We will give you an honest opinion!

 

[trouville]

Thanks for that!i got everthing a bit wrong!! The cat i saw cost more than i thought!

The reason for a mobo id to do the canals comfortably the present boat i use for them is far to small!Fine for a potter about in summer and has a trailor but for real canal exploration i need something bigger and stronger!

The cat well ive always fancied a cat not the Catanas which are huge and expensive but the older models they have a lot to offer pottering about the med not the least of which is there speed!!Ive often thought that for the med there ideal as the ports are full in summer anyway!!!

 

[Colvic Watson]

[ QUOTE ]
But dont cats tip over when its F5 or above?So many around the world ones have summersalted or just inverted.

[/ QUOTE ] I have to confess when I read this I thought you were trolling. But the considered nature of the replies suggests otherwise. All types of monohulls capsize - ask Tony Bullimore etc etc. Cruising cats are at least as hard to capsize as cruising monohulls, out of 500 Heavenly Twins built (similar sized yacht to a Catalac) there has been 1 capsize and that was in a force 10 when the single handed skipper accidentally fell asleep with the autopilot sailing the boat at an angle to the waves. No mono would have stayed upright either. Being a cat it stayed afloat and acted as a massive liferaft for the skipper to await rescue. There is a lot of good natured banter between monohull and multihull sailors and it comes down to personal choice. But as for a multihull's ability to stay upright - just ask Ellen MacArthur, she managed to get round the world alright in one.

 

[trouville]

Just my way of asking a question!As Talbot answed cats make leaway (not tip) that explained it all to me.

Ive never had a cat never sailed on one and have only been on two in the same summer a by chance! One an Italian which was at anchor in the same bay and called me over to offer me a drink as i rowed by on the way to town the second was on a town key, when a large Australian cat moored next to me.Later that week we used my tender to lay anchors for him when the wind picked up and turned,he showed me the boat inside the once and only time ive been inside, both cats were very large and very very comforatable

As times are changeing places are becomeing crowded ive been wondering what the best way forward is? A mobo?Ive been useing a Bertram 28 i like it very much but not as a long term liveaboard.Even a grand banks(we has a 36 wood some years ago)is difficult the wooden ones take a lot of upkeep and the plastic well a bit beyond my reach!)

A momohull? Moody? another Hillyard? HR36?(ive come to like those very much!)But No.Lack of port places in summer, crowding in ports makes anchorages more and more popular and crowded.A compact monohul say a 25 footer could find safe comfortable small ports or as in Itlay behind large breakwaters but lacks space for a good tender.And all roll and pitch with traffic or in a blow.

A Cat!! They are more stable more comfortable at anchor have deck space storage space room for solar panels without constructing metal platforms they make good speed in moderate winds with not over large sails(cost consideration) have shallow draft and can be found at a reasonable price only drawback that i could imagine some ports reluctant to offer a place becouse a cat would need two berths but pay 150%? (ive no experince and have never asked??i just think it could be that way)

I posted to try to answer my questions since i cant just go and buy a cat to see if it suits me!I have to approch the possability carfully ask think look and perhaps after christmas try one???

Already this post has considerably changed my thoughts towards a cat with the word "leway"

 

[jamesjermain]

I couldn't see Talbot's comment about leeway but it rather surprised me. In my experience once a cat has a decent amount of way on it doesn't make more leeway than a cruising monohull and because it's keels are always have the same draught because they don't heel, and are always vertical, they can actually be more efficient despite usually being quite low aspect. But, if a cat is pinched then leeway can become significant.

I suppose in extremely conditions a shallow draughted cat would tend to slide down a wave from the beam which, of course would delay the point of capsize.

My own cat is a bit different since it has deep daggerboards. Windward performance is excellent and in big winds and high seas on the beam I can raise the leeward board completely and have the windward board half up. She still tracks well but if she is overpressed, and the windward hull lifts more than a few inches, she will slide off down wind.

Bella Donna is sporty 10m cat and has limited headroom on the bridge deck but she has over 6ft 4in in the hulls which is where you need it (at the galley, chart table etc). She has a big rig but will hold on to full sail in up to 26 knots apparent in flattish water although I usually reef at 22 knots (18 in a big sea)

 

[ColinHuggins]

Re: A cat or mobo which is it for me??

Am having difficulty reconciling your question with the folkboat described in your Profile. Surely you've noticed what's going on around you? Or have you been completely seduced by apres-sail drinks on one large boat after another?

For a start, take most replies with a pinch of salt: self-confessed enthusiasts are ill-equipped to advise you. Talbot only copes with the unpredictable motion of a multihull by consuming mega-strength seasickness pills; when I met him he was recovering from the shock of finding that Peregrine's large Prout actually steered in a straight line. Yet he's been enthusing about his wobbly, bouncy, ugly Catalac for fourteen years - Nuff sed!

Look on the MoBo Forum and find last week's pics of a blast across the deserted Solent to Cowes and you can't help but reflect "How sad" for it doesn't look glamourous after all. And it isn't - not a buxom blonde or dry Martini in sight!

Have you done enough sailing to evaluate the options? Everything's a compromise so best go out and get more experience then: charter a catamaran or a gin palace, a gaffer or a sports boat for a week or two, then come back and ask again. But aim your enquiry at those who, for one reason or another, have changed from sail to power or vice versa (yes, there are both) - they are the people who know the soul-searching that robbing Peter to pay Paul entails.

Sorry chum, there is no simple solution, no perfect boat - UNLESS you are completely undemanding. In which case anything will do.

 

[mono]

Re: A cat or mobo which is it for me??

What an astonishing post. Are you always this nice or did you make a special effort?

 

[tcm]

Re: A cat or mobo which is it for me??

Aw! That's one of his nicer ones!