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[Graham376]

Im really confused... As for some reason the text book scenario's seem to contradict what i can safely boat in.
It might just be because the boat is so small.

Text books don't take into account local conditions but local pilots usually do.

 

[RobbieW]

So I'm hopefully, fingers crossed ,doing this leaving in April 2021. Never done it myself, but chums did it this year and saw max 25 knots; the previous owner of my boat did it twice singlehanded and once had a F7.

From my research so far, it depends very heavily on the route you take and exactly when you leave. From various anecdotes and articles, it appears to me that if you leave in early April and take a somewhat northerly route, there's a decent risk of some really grown-up weather - 9s or 10s. If you head more south, you're more at risk of needing extra fuel - and it's very hard to aim for the bit in between with 15-20 knots.

If you leave in late May, it appears you can go further north with greater confidence and reasonably expect max 5 or 6. But a gale's always possible.

Still learning so I shall be glad if anyone wants to put me straight on this.

Which way are you going ? your timings sound like W>E

 

[Kukri]

A gale is more wind than I like. This depends a lot on which way I am going, of course.

A storm is another matter. I think a storm means a whole weather system - a violent one - with attendant big seas, poor visibility and the whole box of tricks.

 

[rotrax]

Wind over tide is bad enough.

Wind over two opposing tides is very bad.

About seven years ago we left Glenarm for Rathlin Island.

I made a best judgement on the time to round Fair Head.

I got it badly wrong. I had no hesitation in turning back, and was very pleased to so do!

Fortunately, our berth was still available back in Glenarm.

I spoke with the Harbourmaster, took local advice on timings and wind direction and we got into Rathlin late the following day.

Phew................................ ?

 

[MystyBlue2]

So basically no matter how much we follow the "rules" and know our stuff, The sea can still throw a curve ball and sh1t on our parade no matter how much we might like to think we "know" the sea.

Cant predict nature or beat it and thats why im petrified of it. TBH i dont even know why i own a boat...makes more sense to have a push bike instead

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes, plus depth and gradient of the sea bed, plus changes in wind direction.

And shelter, and weather.

 

[dom]

Apols for being a bit dim, but what on earth is this thread about? Looks to me like Frank Kafka pondering gales in response to a single dot.

Still it‘s Friday night, perhaps it will be clear in the morning ?

 

[Thistle]

Apols for being a bit dim, but what on earth is this thread about? Looks to me like Frank Kafka pondering gales in response to a single dot.

Still it‘s Friday night, perhaps it will be clear in the morning ?

,.?

 

[dom]

,.?

.. / ... . .

 

[LittleSister]

Apols for being a bit dim, but what on earth is this thread about? Looks to me like Frank Kafka pondering gales in response to a single dot.

This thread is a metaphor.

Consider chaos theory. A cormorant hiccups in the middle of nowhere, one thing leads to another, and before you know it you have the remnants of a tropical storm biffing and bashing some poor innocent sailor who was just wafting across the Atlantic.

 

[shaunksb]

Yeah definitely!

I'm on the east coast of Northumberland and tide floods south and ebbs north,

The flattest conditions are a flood tide with a SW wind, but in the text books this is is a wind against tide situation and results in unpredictable and steep, choppy seas.

However in a N wind and flood tide the sea grows really big and is perfect for surfing and definitely not SMALL boating. But this scenario is classed as the safest option as wind with tide "apparently" makes the sea state alot less choppy but can form HUGE rollers....thats why i choose to stay away unless wind is under 10mph and neap tides.

Im really confused... As for some reason the text book scenario's seem to contradict what i can safely boat in.

It might just be because the boat is so small.

You’re just missing one thing off the list which is fetch.

If the wind has a long distance to build up waves in the direction it’s coming from that will have a much greater effect on the sea state.

If it’s coming off the coastline that you’re sailing off the fetch is only your distance offshore. Go out another sixty miles and you’ll notice the difference.

__________________________

 

[RobbieW]

...before you know it you have the remnants of a tropical storm biffing and bashing some poor innocent sailor who was just wafting across the Atlantic.

Is his boat longer than 40' though ? We need to know ?

 

[shaunksb]

Yes, plus depth and gradient of the sea bed, plus changes in wind direction.

The point various of us are making is that 40-50 knots isn't a big deal of itself. In optimal deep water conditions conducive to long ocean swell, I'd take that any day over 25-30 knots wind against tide over a shelving sea, or one of those spiteful little depressions that arise from nowhere and generate awkward waves over whatever the original wind was kicking up just a couple of hours before.

It takes time for a sea to build up in open ocean.

If you have 40-50 knots over 40-50 hours you will have a sight to behold.

_______________________________

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

No experience of open oceans but I've found wind speed doesn't matter so much as sea state. We had a very nasty time in a F7 against a spring tide approaching Anglesey, whereas F9 off Portuguese west coast with little tide gave much calmer seas.

Agree; it is less likely that the wind will kill you; it is more likely that the waves and sea state will kill you.

 

[MystyBlue2]

You’re just missing one thing off the list which is fetch.

If the wind has a long distance to build up waves in the direction it’s coming from that will have a much greater effect on the sea state.

If it’s coming off the coastline that you’re sailing off the fetch is only your distance offshore. Go out another sixty miles and you’ll notice the difference.

__________________________

Yeah thats what happens here!

The safest conditions by text book is "wind WITH tide"...however flowing from the top of Scotland to Northumberland it has say over 200miles to BUILD up the sea state and with a 7Kn tide and a 10Kn wind by the time that had built up down the coastline and reached us the swell is running at 17Kn and boating is a total write off. Brilliant for surfing!

The principal of wind AGAINST tide being dangerous may well apply further off shore but where i launch its the best conditions to be able to get out to sea. As the SW wind flattens off the flood tide and makes it possible to get out of harbour. When the tide starts to ebb...(flowing North) with a SW behind it the sea starts to chop up and its time do go back in.

What is the case on this coast seems the complete opposite as to what the sea SHOULD be doing according to RYA text book.