30mb cooker and propane

[wizard]

Can someone enlighten me - will a 30mb cooker on the yacht run on propane ok without modification.

I ask this as someone has just told me that propane appliances run at 37mb.

 

[VicS]

It should state on the appliance what gas and what pressure !

I think yes, with a 30mB regulator.

30mb is the "new" standard pressure I think you will find for using either butane or propane with suitable appliances

You only need to change the bottle to regulator hp hose to swap between gasses.

 

[wizard]

It should state on the appliance what gas and what pressure !

I think yes, with a 30mB regulator.

30mb is the "new" standard pressure I think you will find for using either butane or propane with suitable appliances

You only need to change the bottle to regulator hp hose to swap between gasses.

Forgot to mention: yes I have the 30mb marine regulator.

The reason being if its not too complicated to sort out I will run the propane through winter to avoid the problems associated with butane at low temps ie like now!

 

[Heckler]

Forgot to mention: yes I have the 30mb marine regulator.

The reason being if its not too complicated to sort out I will run the propane through winter to avoid the problems associated with butane at low temps ie like now!

I have run both my Eno cookers on propane using a propane reg. No adjustments necessary
Stu

 

[VicS]

Forgot to mention: yes I have the 30mb marine regulator.

The reason being if its not too complicated to sort out I will run the propane through winter to avoid the problems associated with butane at low temps ie like now!

If its a bulkhead mounted regulator then all you need is the hose with a propane bottle connector instead of the hose with a butane bottle connector.

 

[wizard]

I have run both my Eno cookers on propane using a propane reg. No adjustments necessary
Stu

Thats the point a propane regulator is 37mb. I dont want the hassle of two expensive marine regulators if I can avoid it.

 

[VicS]

Thats the point a propane regulator is 37mb. I dont want the hassle of two expensive marine regulators if I can avoid it.

But if you have a 30mb cooker and a 30mb regulator you should be able to swap gases. The only complication is requiring to change the high pressure hose for one with a propane bottle connector on the end.
So two hoses needed rather than two regulators.

You should be able to confirm the gas types and the pressure for which the stove is suitable by looking at ID plate on it.

 

[Heckler]

Thats the point a propane regulator is 37mb. I dont want the hassle of two expensive marine regulators if I can avoid it.

I had a few propane regs off the BT vans that I used to get the Ebers off. Just needed some new hose and they are ok.
PM if you want one.
Stu

 

[VicS]

I had a few propane regs off the BT vans that I used to get the Ebers off. Just needed some new hose and they are ok.
PM if you want one.
Stu

But it would not be advisable to operate a 30mb appliance at 37 mb would it? Or is there far more latitude in practice a than we are led to believe?

However BT vans wont have had marine regulators to EN 12864 annex M

 

[Talulah]

Can someone enlighten me - will a 30mb cooker on the yacht run on propane ok without modification.

I ask this as someone has just told me that propane appliances run at 37mb.

Traditionally Propane regulators are 37mb. The new 'Euro' regulators are 30mb.
The Euro regulators can be used for both Propane and Butane.
Butane regualtors are typically 28mb so the difference between the 28 and 30 is nominal.

However, when using a 30mb Euro regulator on a cooker with jets sized for 37mb you will find the burners give a slightly smaller flame.

For example. Force 10 cookers supplied in Canada have bigger sized jets as typically they are used at 30mb in the States. When Force 10 ship cookers to England they have smaller jets so the cooker can be run at 37mb with the same performance.
The manual here http://www.force10.com/files/documents/Gourmet Galley Range Manual.pdf shows the different orifice sizes between N. America and European cookers for the different pressures.
When I discussed the issue of different sized orifices at Southampton Calor Gas Centre they brushed the issue aside. However, the loss in performance is very real. Not important for the smaller burner but it takes significantly longer to boil a kettle on the large burner.
In the case of the Force 10 cooker the large burner would have been fitted with an Orifice size of 0.82mm because they assume the cooker will be run at 37mb. The USA version will have a 0.85mm orifice size because it is assumed to operate at 30mb.

Up to now I don't think this issue has had much press but perhaps one of the magazines should cover it.
It is now only becoming an issue because people are swapping their 37mb Propane regulator for a universal 30mb regulator. (Users of new installations at 30mb probably don't realise their cooker is under performing because they never experienced what their cooker was like at 37mb.)
I contacted the UK importer of Force 10 who promised to look into the conversion kits. (Force 10 do a conversion cook.) However, after initial promising sounds they went quiet.

 

[VicS]

Traditionally Propane regulators are 37mb. The new 'Euro' regulators are 30mb.
The Euro regulators can be used for both Propane and Butane.
Butane regualtors are typically 28mb so the difference between the 28 and 30 is nominal.

However, when using a 30mb Euro regulator on a cooker with jets sized for 37mb you will find the burners give a slightly smaller flame.

For example. Force 10 cookers supplied in Canada have bigger sized jets as typically they are used at 30mb in the States. When Force 10 ship cookers to England they have smaller jets so the cooker can be run at 37mb with the same performance.
The manual here http://www.force10.com/files/documents/Gourmet Galley Range Manual.pdf shows the different orifice sizes between N. America and European cookers for the different pressures.
When I discussed the issue of different sized orifices at Southampton Calor Gas Centre they brushed the issue aside. However, the loss in performance is very real. Not important for the smaller burner but it takes significantly longer to boil a kettle on the large burner.
In the case of the Force 10 cooker the large burner would have been fitted with an Orifice size of 0.82mm because they assume the cooker will be run at 37mb. The USA version will have a 0.85mm orifice size because it is assumed to operate at 30mb.

Up to now I don't think this issue has had much press but perhaps one of the magazines should cover it.
It is now only becoming an issue because people are swapping their 37mb Propane regulator for a universal 30mb regulator. (Users of new installations at 30mb probably don't realise their cooker is under performing because they never experienced what their cooker was like at 37mb.)
I contacted the UK importer of Force 10 who promised to look into the conversion kits. (Force 10 do a conversion cook.) However, after initial promising sounds they went quiet.

But the OP says his cooker is a 30mb one. So it should have the correct jets to operate at 30 mb.

 

[Talulah]

But the OP says his cooker is a 30mb one. So it should have the correct jets to operate at 30 mb.

Your right. The only caveat I have is "Is it sized for 30mb Propane or 30mb Butane?"
Basically less energy per volume in Propane then Butane so bigger orifice needed for same pressure.
Alternatively, different pressures for same sized orifice.

Or to put it another when, when switching between Propane and Butane we used to change regulators. Now instead of switching regulators fit a 30mb regulator and change orifices.

 

[VicS]

Your right. The only caveat I have is "Is it sized for 30mb Propane or 30mb Butane?"
Basically less energy per volume in Propane then Butane so bigger orifice needed for same pressure.
Alternatively, different pressures for same sized orifice.

I am pretty sure you will find that if is designed for 30mb it is suitable for butane or propane at 30mb.

If it had been designed just for butane it would have been 29mb. If it were for propane only it would have been 37 mb

This adapter may be of interest to the OP as it will allow a propane bottle to be connected in place of a butane one with no further modification or even hose change. Useful if the existing installation has a bottle mounted regulator.

See details at http://www.socal.co.uk/toolbox/gaslow-uk-pol-to-21-8lh-cylinder-adaptor.html

.

 

[Conachair]

Can someone enlighten me - will a 30mb cooker on the yacht run on propane ok without modification.

I ask this as someone has just told me that propane appliances run at 37mb.

I've run my smev on both through same 30mB reg. Runs a little cooler on propane but at least it still works when temps drop below zero. Dinner was a little later than normal last night
Istr looking at the propane pressure that there seemed to be quite a bit of butane in it.

 

[vyv_cox]

My motorhome has a 30 mb bulkhead regulator supplying cooking and heating. I have a barbecue that I can plug into an external fitting to run that outside. However, I have used the same barbecue on both Calor and Camping Gaz bottles with their 28 mb regulators and on propane bottles with a 37 mbar regulator. I was unable to detect any difference whichever was being used. My son has a different barbecue and the same applies.

 

[wizard]

I am pretty sure you will find that if is designed for 30mb it is suitable for butane or propane at 30mb.

If it had been designed just for butane it would have been 29mb. If it were for propane only it would have been 37 mb

This adapter may be of interest to the OP as it will allow a propane bottle to be connected in place of a butane one with no further modification or even hose change. Useful if the existing installation has a bottle mounted regulator.

See details at http://www.socal.co.uk/toolbox/gaslow-uk-pol-to-21-8lh-cylinder-adaptor.html

.

Thanks for the link thats just what I need to run both.

 

[wizard]

But the OP says his cooker is a 30mb one. So it should have the correct jets to operate at 30 mb.

Absolutely correct.

As a further bonus if the propane does run slightly cooler especially in the oven then I will be more than pleased.

 

[wizard]

Many thanks for all the help I now believe I have it all sorted.

 

[Heckler]

But it would not be advisable to operate a 30mb appliance at 37 mb would it? Or is there far more latitude in practice a than we are led to believe?

However BT vans wont have had marine regulators to EN 12864 annex M

I have a butane reg with a length of hose and the propane reg with a length of hose. I take the propane reg and bottle with me when i go to the boat when it is cold. No probs with the bottle freezing then. There was a BT man with a van there next to the dock, I asked him did his propane reg turn to white powder being as he was next to the sea!
Mine doesnt!
Stu
PS the boat came with a camping gaz set of bottles and a std reg, it was coded at the time! I put a std calor butane reg on and it has worked fine for the last 3 years.

 

[VicS]

Many thanks for all the help I now believe I have it all sorted.

May be not after all

Apparently the Gaslow adapter may not fit on the small 3.9kg propane bottles.

Ok for the larger ones but may not fit on the little ones. Not enough room for the red "handwheel"

Like wise the "easy-fit" propane bottle hoses.