jontifosi
Well-Known Member
THinking of getting a Laser 2 or Topper Topaz uno
But which is best for amateurs
But which is best for amateurs
2 man dinghy which is best? Laser or Topaz
- Thread starter jontifosi
- Start date
Victorianna
New Member
The Laser 2 is usually sailed as a double-hander whereas the Topaz uno is really only a singlehander (however much Topper dress it up) so firstly you have to decide how often you'll be sailing with others.. and where you'll be doing your sailing??
The Topaz is a newer boat that is used by lots of sailing schools due to its easy handling and bombproof plastic construction. It's good fun in all conditions and very east to rig and transport (can be car topped). You can upgrade it to have a jib (though two adults is definitely a squeeze) and even put a bigger rig with a spinnaker. It's limiting if you want to sail with others.
If you're after a pure singlehanded dinghy, you'd be better off with a Laser 1 as they are a bit more responsive and better to sail - both in light airs and planing conditions.
The Laser 2 is a solid doublehander, GRP so a bit more breakable if you plan on bumping into a few jetties as you learn and you'd struggle as an amateur sailing it on your own if you can't alwyas find crew. Raced at quite a few clubs (certainly more than the Topaz) if that's your bag. It's a bit more faff (but not much) to rig/transport but that depends where you're keeping it. Can be picked up very cheap, but I can think of better doublehanders IMHO.
Why just these two boats - they're quite different?
Have you been to your local club and talked to them about the boats they sail/race - joining a club is often the best way to progress with your dinghy sailing.
The Topaz is a newer boat that is used by lots of sailing schools due to its easy handling and bombproof plastic construction. It's good fun in all conditions and very east to rig and transport (can be car topped). You can upgrade it to have a jib (though two adults is definitely a squeeze) and even put a bigger rig with a spinnaker. It's limiting if you want to sail with others.
If you're after a pure singlehanded dinghy, you'd be better off with a Laser 1 as they are a bit more responsive and better to sail - both in light airs and planing conditions.
The Laser 2 is a solid doublehander, GRP so a bit more breakable if you plan on bumping into a few jetties as you learn and you'd struggle as an amateur sailing it on your own if you can't alwyas find crew. Raced at quite a few clubs (certainly more than the Topaz) if that's your bag. It's a bit more faff (but not much) to rig/transport but that depends where you're keeping it. Can be picked up very cheap, but I can think of better doublehanders IMHO.
Why just these two boats - they're quite different?
Have you been to your local club and talked to them about the boats they sail/race - joining a club is often the best way to progress with your dinghy sailing.
EuanMcKenzie
Well-Known Member
Dinghys are very susceptable to size and weight.
One persons ideal boat is a tiny slug another can't bend over
Also are you cruising or racing, hot med or cold north sea
suggest trying any before buying and working out want you want it for first (if you haven't already)
One persons ideal boat is a tiny slug another can't bend over
Also are you cruising or racing, hot med or cold north sea
suggest trying any before buying and working out want you want it for first (if you haven't already)
Ruffles
Well-Known Member
I sailed a Topaz last year. Very impressed. I've never been so comfy in a dinghy. Love the way the 'kicker' is a strut above the boom. How do they get polyprop to be so stiff?
Had a look at the Topper and Laser stands at the S'ton boat show. I used to sail a Laser I. My impression is that Topper are streets ahead. I remember the old toppers which were as stiff as a sponge. Their later offerings are a different beast entirely.
Get a Topaz and lend it to me!
Had a look at the Topper and Laser stands at the S'ton boat show. I used to sail a Laser I. My impression is that Topper are streets ahead. I remember the old toppers which were as stiff as a sponge. Their later offerings are a different beast entirely.
Get a Topaz and lend it to me!
jontifosi
Well-Known Member
im 96 kg or 15 stone and intend on going out with my son about 40 kg? (10yr old) - to teach him sailing. Ideally he'd take it up and we end up buying two boats for a bit of racing.
open to other ideas - don't want to spend too much
local club suggested an RS FEva but they're much more expensive than a Topaz
open to other ideas - don't want to spend too much
local club suggested an RS FEva but they're much more expensive than a Topaz
lw395
Well-Known Member
By making it remarkably heavy!
Are you only looking at new boats?
Are you concerned at depreciation?
Budget?
What weight and size of people?
Do you need something that will survive a lot of abuse?
Racing? Cruising? Pottering?
There are plenty of good used racing dinghies from £1000 upwards good to go.
Sky's the limit though.
I would suggest buying something used to learn on, then progressing later if you like, when you know what you really want from a boat.
Very often, 'improvers' mostly want to go out on nice days, so good light wind performance is more important than you might think.
Whereas sailing schools want to send beginners out in all weathers, so they are more biased towards boats that need breeze.
I would suggest joining a club, it's much less faff than always trailing and you will use the boat more.
Ruffles
Well-Known Member
If you have a particular club in mind then go with whatever they race. Much more exciting racing in a fleet compared to handicap racing.
Just occurred to me that the 'Topaz' boats are actually a range. I was on a Topaz Omega. You were presumably considering one of the smaller ones?
I'd always assumed that modern faster dinghies where a handful. Actually, once the boats flying and the foils are working I felt I was perfectly in control.
Just occurred to me that the 'Topaz' boats are actually a range. I was on a Topaz Omega. You were presumably considering one of the smaller ones?
I'd always assumed that modern faster dinghies where a handful. Actually, once the boats flying and the foils are working I felt I was perfectly in control.
jontifosi
Well-Known Member
Are you only looking at new boats? anything upto around £1300
Are you concerned at depreciation? No
Budget? £1300
What weight and size of people? 1x96kg + 1 x 45kg
Do you need something that will survive a lot of abuse? No
Racing? Cruising? Pottering? Pottering as fast as possible - not necessarily racing
I'd be into going out upto around force 3 winds
Are you concerned at depreciation? No
Budget? £1300
What weight and size of people? 1x96kg + 1 x 45kg
Do you need something that will survive a lot of abuse? No
Racing? Cruising? Pottering? Pottering as fast as possible - not necessarily racing
I'd be into going out upto around force 3 winds
Bobc
Well-Known Member
Get an old Merlin. Lovely boat and fabulous value.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I do sometimes sail an old Merlin, it is indeed a lovely boat and good value, but it's made of wood and takes a lot of TLC.
If the OP wanted a wooden boat, I suspect he would not even consider a rotomoulded boat.
Going out up to force 3, with 140kg on board.
That's 22 stone in old money?
I would suggest going for something around 14ft minimum, smaller boats generally don't carry weight so well, you will notice it in the light stuff. With that weight differential, look for a boat where the helm can sit well forwards easily, so I would suggest avoiding some of the boats with rope bridle for the mainsheet in the middle of the boat.
At that budget, it's perhaps down to individual boats. A good example of one design is better than a bad example of the perfect design. If you can find a reasonably smart Laser 2 for that price it would be OK IMHO. They have a trapeze and spinnaker to progress to.
It's a traditional 'symetric' spinnaker, the more modern assymetric is easier for learners IMHO.
I'm not that familiar with some of the newer models. I would suggest the 'Yachts and Yachting' forum might be better placed to give you advice, as there are more dinghy sailors on there, including some instructors who know most of the new boats very well.
jontifosi
Well-Known Member
thnaks all for your helpful advice, it seems i need to research a bit longer before i make my mind up.
EuanMcKenzie
Well-Known Member
that budget and weight range will get you a nice enterprise which is a good stable light weather performer in up to F3
An epoxy wood one would not be that hard to keep and you can flog it after you have decided what to do next.
Don't get much modern plastic for that budget
something like this wouldn't loose too much for a years sailing
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=237305
An epoxy wood one would not be that hard to keep and you can flog it after you have decided what to do next.
Don't get much modern plastic for that budget
something like this wouldn't loose too much for a years sailing
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=237305
FulmarJeddo
Well-Known Member
I have a Topper Topaz Uno Plus (Uno with jib). I bought it quite a few years ago more as a toy for the beach and the kids able to use. I considered the Laser and Laser 2 but the Topaz won on its simplicity. The hull is virtually indestructible and the simple rig takes just a few minutes to set up and get on the water. I have had some very exhilarating sails in F6s and it glides along in a F1. In light conditions I sail it with the jib and heavier conditions just the main. The main is easily reefed by rolling it around the mast, but I have never sailed it myself reefed.
The only time I have ever capsized it was messing up a gybe with two adults aboard. If the wind gets too strong it tends to round up rather than tipping over.
I'm about 13 stone and normally sail singlehanded, but have sailed it with both lightweight crews and similar sized adults. It is a bit cramped with two adults but still sails well.
The only time I have ever capsized it was messing up a gybe with two adults aboard. If the wind gets too strong it tends to round up rather than tipping over.
I'm about 13 stone and normally sail singlehanded, but have sailed it with both lightweight crews and similar sized adults. It is a bit cramped with two adults but still sails well.
William_H
Well-Known Member
dinghies
I second all those who said choose a club then go with the fleet that is most popular.
However you mentioned your 10 yo son. It would be very easy to put him off dinghy sailing. It might be good to have him do a sailing course in dinghies first. I have donme a lot of teaching of kids in dinghies and I know that a good portion of them just don't like it. Much to Dad's dismay.
Far safer from the point of view of not putting him off would be small keel boat. Ballasted and unsinkable.
Just cos it is bigger does not mean it is not for kids. Indeed kids are far safer in a bigger boat. Just make sure he is skipper. You have to clever enough to keep him safe without him knowing it. You may be able to find some racing for this boat. good luck olewill
I second all those who said choose a club then go with the fleet that is most popular.
However you mentioned your 10 yo son. It would be very easy to put him off dinghy sailing. It might be good to have him do a sailing course in dinghies first. I have donme a lot of teaching of kids in dinghies and I know that a good portion of them just don't like it. Much to Dad's dismay.
Far safer from the point of view of not putting him off would be small keel boat. Ballasted and unsinkable.
Just cos it is bigger does not mean it is not for kids. Indeed kids are far safer in a bigger boat. Just make sure he is skipper. You have to clever enough to keep him safe without him knowing it. You may be able to find some racing for this boat. good luck olewill
EBoat126
Well-Known Member
I bought a 420 at the end of last year to sail with my 11 year old daughter. We just finished a Frostbite series in 4th. Lovely boat to sail with lots of advantages. Designed as a youth training boat, not over canvased, trapeze, symetrical kite. Huge following worldwide, and fantastic youth training programme should the urge take you. Oh and I paid £500 for it with 2 suits of very decent sails. I know someone who picked one up on ebay last week for £600.
Laser 2 is, in my opinion, a hateful, badly designed boat with poor controls and lousy sails and rig.
Laser 2 is, in my opinion, a hateful, badly designed boat with poor controls and lousy sails and rig.
flaming
Well-Known Member
I agree. Hated those bloody things uni sailing.
lw395
Well-Known Member
The kids who don't take to dinghy sailing are often the ones who find it 'boring'. I don't notice many being concerned about safety, most are quite happy to capsize provided they have a buoyancy aid and a wetsuit on, and they have been given the confidence to right the boat.
Keelboats are expensive to moor and the slower response will tend to mean people learn slower than in a dinghy. I've seen keelboat owners really benefit from a couple of days dinghy sailing, where the quicker feedback from the boat makes it so much easier to learn.
People vary in their learning styles, so do whatever suits you.
I agree that a course may be a good idea, learning by Dad's mistakes can be frustrating. Many clubs have training for kids, both formal and informal. It's also a good way of getting to know other kids at a club.
lw395
Well-Known Member
A 420 with 22 stone in it is probably at the top end of what you want, they are more ideal for two youths, but yes they are good for that. The keen squad type racers spend a lot of money, but old ones can be a bargain. That's true of very many of the conventional classes.
Laser 2 is not the finest boat in the world, but it is faster, simple and fairly strong. They were, as Flaming points out, used for team racing at some universities a while back. For this purpose, they did not use the kite or trapeze, and the dagger board makes the front end very cramped if you are a 6ft stoodent. In cold, light weather, crewing was indeed quite horrible.
You may say the simple controls on the Laser 2 are 'poor' but the more complex set-ups on many other boats may need a lot more sorting out and possible expense, which would be fine for an experienced dinghy person, but possibly a wind-up for a novice?
To some extent you get what you pay for, a bit of market research around eBay, Yachts and Yachting, Boats and Outboards, Apollo Duck etc may give you some ideas. Another useful website is Noble Marine insurance which will give you quotes as well as info on different classes, tell you the nearest sailing clubs etc etc.
jwilson
Well-Known Member
My only real gripe with the Laser 2 was that they LIKE turtling on every capsize, even if you are pretty quick to slide over the side onto the daggerboard. When someone else bought two for the club where I used to teach sailing I initially thought they'd disintegrate under the teaching/member hire usage - in fact they turned out to be very tough and very little trouble in terms of maintenance.
