183 day rule

[GrahamM376]

But surely the marina paperwork could only show where the boat (probably) was and for how long. The owner/crew could be anywhere in the intervening period.

Police & customs often wander around marinas taking notes and sometimes photos. If any doubts about crew locality, it would be up to the crew to prove they were out of the country. We met a Dutch couple in Chipiona a few years ago who had been caught overstaying in Spain and it cost them around 7,500 euros, can't remember the full details.

 

[boatman61]

If they've left Schengen for the UK or anywhere else they'll have been tagged.. as for the boats movements.. there's a lot of drug smuggling going on..
If you are going to get so tied up in Red Tape it might pay to familiarise yourself with the centralised computer tracking of boats that happens EU wide.. and links to the USA.
Just because when one checks into Lagos or Portimao.. or Palma de Mallorca or Caratgena there is no Customs official to go through like the old days does not mean they are not there.. they are.. just not front of house in your face anymore.
Go your own way..

 

[jimbaerselman]

If they've left Schengen for the UK or anywhere else they'll have been tagged.. as for the boats movements.. there's a lot of drug smuggling going on..
If you are going to get so tied up in Red Tape it might pay to familiarise yourself with the centralised computer tracking of boats that happens EU wide.. and links to the USA.
Just because when one checks into Lagos or Portimao.. or Palma de Mallorca or Caratgena there is no Customs official to go through like the old days does not mean they are not there.. they are.. just not front of house in your face anymore.
Go your own way..

I'm not aware of any means or procedures whereby boats on departing Schengen are "tagged", tracked or required to report their intentions.

There were attempts by border control authorities in UK to introduce compulsory reporting procedures for all boats entering UK waters. All proposed methods have so far have proved to be impractical. Current practice is for Customs RIBs to make random (or informed) checks on vessels entering UK's 12nm limits.

With respect to current legislation and practice about "Time Abroad" effects within the EU, I suggest you read http://www.jimbsail.info/going-foreign/time-abroad.

Sure, quite a few people have in-advertently become Spanish tax residents, and their boat's presence has escaped detection. But since 2012, a significant number of live-aboards, and British residents in Spain who have brought in boats un-reported have been asked to explain themselves. Those unable to prove they spent less than any 183 days per calendar year outside Spain were then made to pay a "pollution tax" calculated partly on engine size (it was, for a time, called a matriculation tax). The tax equated to something like 12% of the boat's value, and in some cases, fines were added.

The only reliable way to avoid such payments is to declare the boat's import within time limits. A gestor will advise.

 

[RAI]

There's a wee cache 22 for the authorities. The 183 day rule applies to residency of a person. That means at an address. Marina addresses no longer seem acceptable for the tax authorities, they demand a residential address. Hence people who own or rent property are easier to nail. Those who have no residential address could be regarded as vagrants for staying so long but the authorities seem to just treat it as too much trouble for too little worth.

I know of two examples in the Canaries (Spain?) who after 10 and 12 years living in a marina full time were asked to pay the pollution / matriculation tax on their boats. One of them was told to get a proper address, so he borrowed one from a landlubber friend. Since they are both pensioners, that was it, no further taxes. Curiously, also no requirement to register and get an ID card. But then the islands are extra lay back.

 

[boatman61]

I'm not aware of any means or procedures whereby boats on departing Schengen are "tagged", tracked or required to report their intentions.

Are you guys being deliberately obtuse...??
A statement was made that a boat could be in the marina but the crew anywhere..
I responded that if the crew left Schengen they would have been tagged as such by immigration.. and their return as they cleared into France at Ashford or one of the Car Ferries or by plane.
I said nothing about the boat being tagged.. no need.. its sitting in the marina.. and has been stated above.. this is not an address so largely ignored.
If you want a floating cottage in one place for 10yrs.. of course one will attract attention.. but if one is a normal cruiser all should be fine if folks behave.
Its these types of dodges that the Spanish and Portuguese and Italians and Greeks jump on.. floating cottages rented out to friends and family and screwing the local economy.. and making life difficult in the long run for genuine cruisers.
If one wishes to settle then do as I have done.. get a residency.. its not hard and one can keep the UK registration on their boat.
Or am I an exception coz I've got blue eyes and a friendly smile..

PS: How does one bring a boat in unreported.. hide up the Guadiana..?

 

[Tranona]

I'm not aware of any means or procedures whereby boats on departing Schengen are "tagged", tracked or required to report their intentions.

Are you guys being deliberately obtuse...??
A statement was made that a boat could be in the marina but the crew anywhere..
I responded that if the crew left Schengen they would have been tagged as such by immigration.. and their return as they cleared into France at Ashford or one of the Car Ferries or by plane.

Not sure why you are introducing "leaving Schengen" - either boats or people. The point about residency is that it relates to the EU state and the amount of time you stay there. Even if you do have your particulars taken by a marina and lodged with the authorities that does not mean that they will check on the 183rd day and demand you become resident. There are no systematic checks but what triggers it off as already suggested is either a random check or "intelligence". The onus would then be on the individual to show that s/he was not in the country for the period claimed. As there are no checks, particularly across Europe you have to rely on other evidence such as airline tickets, working in another state credit card expenditure in another state etc.

For many years I travelled all over Europe by air, rail, ferry and car and particularly to Greece where my boat was without any checks as well as to over 20 different countries outside Europe, mostly starting and finishing in the UK. How would Spanish or Greece immigration have any idea where I had been in the time between my visits to their state?

Just to make one final thing clear. Residency and any tax implications in Spain relate to the individual, not to his boat, which is free to be in Spanish waters with no restriction if he is an EU citizen. "Genuine" cruisers will not be affected by any of this if they are aware of the rules and plan their cruise and personal movements accordingly.

 

[boatman61]

So after a mega run around we get to what I said in the first place.. or is the boat still liable for a separate tax.. Talk about bullshit baffles Brains... Sheesh

 

[owen-cox]

I was living in Mallorca and had a mooring that I had laid along with plenty of others near puerto portals that I used for the summer months. I had not problem for a long time there until some helpful soul with a charter catamaran decided that, after his anchor caught my mooring, he would cut my boat free so he could release his anchor. he let my boat drift onto the harbour wall where a helpful professional yacht skipper decided to jump on board my boat and drive it into the marina. I was advised by the skipper who found out who I was through other skippers ( I was working in the industry) that he had moved her into the marina for safe keeping. I went down on the morning after I heard which was Sunday and the girl in the office was unable to calculate the bill. I told her I would leave her a copy of my passport and a business card and pay first thing Monday morning. I moved my boat to another marina and that was that or so I thought. I went to the marina again at 9 am on Monday morning and paid my bill and was confused when the lady was a little cold with me and seemed very grumpy. I then headed to my office and found the guardia civil waiting for me saying they had been called by puerto portals to say that I had left without paying. I showed them the receipt and thought that was it only to find that they had impounded my boat and that I had to pass to Hacienda to pay the import duty on it because I was a resident. I was extremely annoyed as you can imagine. anyway to cut a long story short I didnt have to pay because I found a surveyor who measured and issued a certificate to say that my yacht was less than 7.5 metres LOA and that meant it was exempt. because the duty was effectively paid they had no interest in making me register the yacht locally and so I never did.

 

[owen-cox]

I'm not aware of any means or procedures whereby boats on departing Schengen are "tagged", tracked or required to report their intentions.
Not sure why you are introducing "leaving Schengen" - either boats or people. The point about residency is that it relates to the EU state and the amount of time you stay there. Even if you do have your particulars taken by a marina and lodged with the authorities that does not mean that they will check on the 183rd day and demand you become resident. There are no systematic checks but what triggers it off as already suggested is either a random check or "intelligence". The onus would then be on the individual to show that s/he was not in the country for the period claimed. As there are no checks, particularly across Europe you have to rely on other evidence such as airline tickets, working in another state credit card expenditure in another state etc.

For many years I travelled all over Europe by air, rail, ferry and car and particularly to Greece where my boat was without any checks as well as to over 20 different countries outside Europe, mostly starting and finishing in the UK. How would Spanish or Greece immigration have any idea where I had been in the time between my visits to their state?

Just to make one final thing clear. Residency and any tax implications in Spain relate to the individual, not to his boat, which is free to be in Spanish waters with no restriction if he is an EU citizen. "Genuine" cruisers will not be affected by any of this if they are aware of the rules and plan their cruise and personal movements accordingly.

I believe that if you are a resident in Spain you cannot own a foreign registered vehicle or boat. you must import it and this is why the import duty is due.

 

[jimbaerselman]

I believe that if you are a resident in Spain you cannot own a foreign registered vehicle or boat. you must import it and this is why the import duty is due.

Sorry Owen, but you're a bit out of date with this. There was a period when this was true (2009 - 2011?) but a complaint was lodged with the EU Commission that this infringed the EU customs code - which states that no charges are payable if a "Means of Transport" (MoT = car, boat, airplane, horse and cart!) changes it's residence from one country to another within the EU.

The commission upheld the complaint, and Spain changed its law.

The current situation is that if someone is tax resident in Spain, and they have EU registered (but not Spanish registered) "means of transport", it may only be used in Spain for less than 6 months.

To be used in Spain for more than 6 months, MoT must be imported. Import means meeting all Spanish regulations pertaining to using the boat/car. Import may be permanent (re-registering the boat/car as Spanish) or temporary (going through the same process, adding a local identity number, but keeping the original registration).

If the import is completed in a timely fashion (within 30 days of the event) then no "pollution tax" is payable. If it's completed after the event plus 30 days, pollution tax is chargeable. This "pollution tax" is solely a Spanish invention - the previous "matriculation charge" or "import duty" being converted to a new name.

The purpose of "import" is to give maximum work flexiblity to people who live on or near borders between countries. It means they can live in one EU country, and work in another, but use their car or boat legally in either country.

As far as I am aware, only Spain and Portugal have applied this 180 day/6 month stay rule to boats, and even then only in limited circumstances.

 

[Plomong]

The only reliable way to avoid such payments is to declare the boat's import within time limits. A gestor will advise.

Excellent advice.

It is best to declare on arrival (within 30 days), thus having the boat exempt from the "pollution tax", and then going on your way.

No one can then trip you up or cause you loss of sleep or hassle.

No need to change or obtain qualifications beyond those of the flag state, no need to re-register in Spain, etc, etc.

Just go and enjoy your stay.

Plomong

 

[Sea Devil]

The form you fill in at the Spanish marina is copied to the Guardia Civil who pick up, every evening, from every Spanish marina. These forms are entered into the national computer and your vessel is tracked from Spanish port to port.

What the Guardia Civil are watching out for is boats that tie up and do not move on. Now the forms do not have a leaving section to complete on departure so that gives a degree of flexibility.
Now I am certain the Guardia Civil do not look at their computer screens and say boat x has been in Spanish waters for 200 days so we must check their papers - they do have all the times and dates of arrival, ports visited etc on file.
It is a very efficient and well organised system. Brit in or out will not change that.
Michael

 

[Wansworth]

Excellent advice.

It is best to declare on arrival (within 30 days), thus having the boat exempt from the "pollution tax", and then going on your way.

No one can then trip you up or cause you loss of sleep or hassle.

No need to change or obtain qualifications beyond those of the flag state, no need to re-register in Spain, etc, etc.

Just go and enjoy your stay.

Plomong

I thought you only had to declare before thirty days if you intended to become a resident

 

[Sea Devil]

I thought you only had to declare before thirty days if you intended to become a resident

That is correct. If passing through or leaving the boat for years but you going home there is nothing to report