17 foot boat across the channel...Possible?

[Jeepster]

OK, so leaving the issue of this being a troll for a moment, let's get some facts straight...

1. VHF Operators Certificate / Ship's Radio License. I have no idea if you need one or not in international waters, but as both the UK and French territorial waters extend 12 miles offshore, and the crossing is only 20 miles, you will never actually be in international waters. Get stopped inside the 12 mile limit and you will require both..

Good point, but what if you dont have a radio on board? As far as I am aware its not compulsary to carry one, only advisary.

2. Paperwork. The French authorities require, and may wish to inspect, your vessel's registration certificate (SSR / Part 3 Registration = Small Ships Register details here: http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/ukr-home/pleasurecraft-smallships.htm). They will also require you to be in posession of an International Certificate of Competence, proof of insurance (insurance certificate with a French translation), proof of VAT status and to have your ICC CEVNI endorsed if you wish to use the inland waterways. You may also require an ATIS enabled VHF for inland use, but I'm not 100% on that one. You will also need passports and I suggest you take EU medical cards.

Good info!...But I dont understand why I need for proof of VAT? I bought the boat on ebay and paid the seller cash when I collected it so I dont think any VAT was paid at all, at least by me. The boat is well over twenty years old so many regs that apply today did not apply to this boat when it was new.

3. Speed and range. You stated in your first post, "This moves the boat along no problem, but going against the tide, even at full throttle, the boat does slow to walking place." So let's say 4 knots if you are punching the tide or (more realistically) you have less than perfect sea conditions. Including the bits for leaving and entering harbour, that makes for a 5-6 hour crossing. The old rule of thumb for 2 strokes was 1/2 pint per hp per hour at full chat, so a 2T would burn close to 4 gallons in six hours. I'll accept 4 strokes as being more efficient, so you could carry enough fuel..

All very good points. In light of this info I shall abandon any thoughts of crossing with the engine I have now and I would only consider making a crossing in the future if I can get a bigger four stroke outboard.
So those on here that have no spirit of adventure left in their bones can rest easy for now, I'll still be around for a bit longer yet.
Frankly, I am supprised at many of the responses to this thread. Imagine, that the internet and this forum existed in the late 1400's...The doom and gloom brigade on here would surely have done their level best to talk Christopher Columbus from attempting his historic voyage across the Atlantic in the first place, being ridiculed for even suggesting it.
Perhaps I should have posted this thread on the "Jester Challenge" forum, but I was'nt planning on crossing a large ocean, or even doing it single handed, just the English Channel, not a large Ocean by anyones standards.
Thanks to Wiggo for the best and most concise reply in this whole thread so far and to Searush for the funniest, IE: "Now I know why he needs so many passengers - to pull the boat & trailer up the slipway for him!".

 

[hlb]

Frankly, I am supprised at many of the responses to this thread. Imagine, that the internet and this forum existed in the late 1400's.

Depends whether you want the replys in three words or three thousand. Which ever way. Dont do it means the same. One way is to look at the whole of what is said and form an oppinion.

Tuther way is to disect every thing said, then come to the same oppinion.


The doom and gloom brigade on here would surely have done their level best to talk Christopher Columbus from attempting his historic voyage across the Atlantic in the first place, being ridiculed for even suggesting it.

Most folk on here, think nothing of going to the CI's or further. Have experienced most things the sea can throw at them. It's experience that you've found, not a gung ho attitude.

 

[Wiggo]

Good point, but what if you dont have a radio on board? As far as I am aware its not compulsary to carry one, only advisary.

Quite right, but you'd be insane to go without one. A handheld can be bought for £50 now (Cobra, from Force 4 - I bought one last year and its actually quite good).

Good info!...But I dont understand why I need for proof of VAT? I bought the boat on ebay and paid the seller cash when I collected it so I dont think any VAT was paid at all, at least by me. The boat is well over twenty years old so many regs that apply today did not apply to this boat when it was new.

You'd need to check on the age of the boat. If the boat is older than a certain age (and it's up to you to be able to prove that to French Customs), it's VAT status doesn't matter. If not, you have to be able to prove that VAT was paid on it in the EU at some point. The safest way to do this is to have the original builder's invoice showing that VAT was paid. Clearly, with an old boat bought off eBay you will struggle to do this. The risk is that if you can't, then French Customs can impound the boat until you pay French VAT (19.6%, I think) on whatever value they deem the boat to have.

 

[lovezoo]

The risk is that if you can't, then French Customs can impound the boat until you pay French VAT (19.6%, I think) on whatever value they deem the boat to have.

Have French customs ever impounded a British boat because it wasn't carrying a VAT invoice?

 

[Wiggo]

Dunno. They can do. Would you fancy being the test case?

 

[PaulGooch]

"Pleasure yachts built pre-1985 and in EU waters on 31st December 1992 are treated as VAT paid."

Looking at the OP's boat, he shouldn't have a problem with VAT.

 

[Wiggo]

That's the date I wasn't sure of, thanks, Paul! The boat could easily be from around 1985, or 5 years either side of that. Not sure if it would have had a HIN that contained a date code, so the onus may still be on the OP to prove it's age, of course...

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Frankly, I am supprised at many of the responses to this thread. Imagine, that the internet and this forum existed in the late 1400's...The doom and gloom brigade on here would surely have done their level best to talk Christopher Columbus from attempting his historic voyage across the Atlantic in the first place, being ridiculed for even suggesting it.
Perhaps I should have posted this thread on the "Jester Challenge" forum, but I was'nt planning on crossing a large ocean, or even doing it single handed, just the English Channel, not a large Ocean by anyones standards.

The responses were mostly in respect of three or four statements you made.

Your intention to carry six passengers.
Your dismissal of a VHF radio - two years ago, a few of us were motoring back from a forum meet, when one of the boats caught fire. Funnily enough, a VHF radio turned out to be pretty handy at that moment.
Your original decision to do the trip with an inadequate engine.

Slowly but surely you are adjusting your plans based upon the very responses you have received.

Plus the fact, your original post did not show a picture of your boat, but once most of us had seen it, we adjusted our responses.

That is why the forum has its uses, but if you post what appears to be a dangerous hair brained adventure, expect a few howls.

I still await your comment on my post about the TSS.

 

[lovezoo]

Dunno. They can do. Would you fancy being the test case?

If you dunno then its just another scare story, innit?

 

[z1ppy]

Have French customs ever impounded a British boat because it wasn't carrying a VAT invoice?

yes!

i know from first hand experience!

 

[lovezoo]

Well, tell us more.

 

[z1ppy]

My better half spent a very cold 24 hours in Dunkirk with some of the french finest standing on the quay stopping them move!

To be fair, they were very nice and grateful for the cuppa PG Tips that was given to them whilst they stood guard!

They were looking for copy of proof of VAT paid status and it took a while to explain to them the boats were for export and en route to export vessel.

these were big ish boats and travelling together so guess they were looking for something to doo.

the fact it was almost christmas also gave them a good opportunity to boost their christmas party fund also!!

 

[Jeepster]

"Pleasure yachts built pre-1985 and in EU waters on 31st December 1992 are treated as VAT paid."

Looking at the OP's boat, he shouldn't have a problem with VAT.

I went to see the previous owner today and he said he thinks the boat was made in 1986...If so, does that put it past the threshold or does the "in EU waters" bit take precedence?

 

[IanH]

I went to see the previous owner today and he said he thinks the boat was made in 1986...If so, does that put it past the threshold or does the "in EU waters" bit take precedence?

Looks to me that you would be better trying to prove that VAT has been paid on the boat because 1986 is after 1985 and French waters are EU waters. Of course you could instead prove that the boat was built in 1984, or not worry about it and take the risk that you won't be asked and make sure that you have a chunk of change to pay the VAT just in case.

 

[ontheplane]

This is "Darwin" theory at it's finest....

Suvival of the fittest and smartest....

Others do silly things, get killed, we all learn from their mistakes....





I know this post is a wind-up

....or.....

... you're insane.....

 

[bendyone]

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the VAT, It looks old enough not to cause a problem. I have never been asked about the VAT status of my boat although I have a file showing VAT on some major items ie. engine etc.

 

[Searush]

You could always make up a "receipt" on your computer & "age" it suitably then put it in a file of other suitable papers like your purchase receipt,
passports, CG66, your passage plan as filed with HMCG, Ship's radio licence, VHF Operator's cert etc etc

 

[sarabande]

there's an idea for diversification SR. We could make up a few blank pages of documents as you listed, and then make them available to members of the forum as a service to the boating community. It would cut down all this tiresome administration business, and keep the French customs bods much happier....

 

[hlb]

Yes I suggest it's written in Lancastrian.

Mind I've no room to talk, MF's original invoice say. Sold for £1 and other conciderations. I suppose I'll owe the Frogs 17.5 P.

Been to France umpteen times, never been asked for bits of paper. Been to CI's loads of times as well, just never told anyone I was going, or had come back. Maybe it's the advantage of smoke.

 

[Col]

I've been boarded twice (both times Cherbourg) and asked for "ships papers"
I think Cherbourg is a Dounne traing centre. It's a bit worrying having a bunch of 18 year olds turn all tooled up with shooters, and demanding to inspect your boat and paperwork