BrendanS
Well-known member
SSR would help more
17 foot boat across the channel...Possible?
- Thread starter Jeepster
- Start date
PaulGooch
Active member
You've never need to, so since when doesn't make any sense!
I stand corrected, i was under the impression you also needed the ICC for coastal waters.
Jeepster
Member
SSR?
Jeepster
Member
Noone said it would get on the plane. I would need a 25hp at least for that.
I would demand life jackets to be worn by all on board as a manditory requirement for such a voyage but the rest of the kit mentioned is not really essential.
Yes.
Currently my backup engine is a Suzuki 3 1/2 hp 2 stroke outboard but the 9.9hp four stroke on the boat now was originally its back up engine when its main engine was an 85hp 2 stroke outboard. I am looking for a bigger outboard so that the 9.9 can be relagated to backup duties again.
Fuel consumption is'nt really an issue. At the very worst, such a voyage is unlikely to take more than 7-8 hours. My 9.9 four stroke can run for 24 hours straight on 5 gallons of fuel leaving a huge reserve and I will have a second full 5 gallon tank in reserve anyway.
No, but you dont need a license to use one in international waters.
I can get a cheap used on on ebay easy enough and in any case the coast guard would rather a boat set to sea with an unlicensed radio and be safe than set to sea without one and perish.
No, but I have the handbook for the RYA course and trust me its childplay compared to Amateur radio requirements and practices. (I am a licensed amateur radio operator BTW).
I dont see why not but in any case should I need to register it, who exactly do I register it with?
Why?...Do the French authorities see it as compulsary? Or does it become compulsary in the UK should I wish to register my boat?
I have used my boat against the tide on the Thames several times, and fuel consumption has never been a problem, speed has though.
True, the tide at Dover runs North to North East up to HW + 4 1/2 but after that it reverses, so allowing for this, plotting a clockwise course from Dover should take us across ok, if taking somewhat longer than I'd like.
Thanks for your help as many replies on here have not been very helpfull.
nonitoo
New member
I have read this thread with interest and am intrigued that the poster is perfectly happy to ignore the requirements.
He is going to have an interesting time with the douaniers on the other side !
Don't forget to use the French inland waterways he will require a licence from VNF (see http://www.vnf.fr/vnf/content.vnf?action=content&occ_id=32827 )
Mind you, knowing he is perfectly happy ignoring the previously mentioned requirements (SSR, VHF Ship Licence, VHF Operators Licence, ICC.CEVNI) why would he bother with the French Waterways Licence.
I still reckon the whole business is a wind-up - nobody can be that unworldly.
Tom
He is going to have an interesting time with the douaniers on the other side !
Don't forget to use the French inland waterways he will require a licence from VNF (see http://www.vnf.fr/vnf/content.vnf?action=content&occ_id=32827 )
Mind you, knowing he is perfectly happy ignoring the previously mentioned requirements (SSR, VHF Ship Licence, VHF Operators Licence, ICC.CEVNI) why would he bother with the French Waterways Licence.
I still reckon the whole business is a wind-up - nobody can be that unworldly.
Tom
nickcred
New member
Just Read All This
On the basis that the OP has asked for advice but does not seem to want to take it on board and see flares as unnecessary I think there is only one answer
Good luck to you and your err crew
On the basis that the OP has asked for advice but does not seem to want to take it on board and see flares as unnecessary I think there is only one answer
Good luck to you and your err crew
Portland Billy
Active member
Is it a wind up ?
Lots of 17ft sailing boats have made it across because they are powered by wind, built to go to sea, and only have one or two people on board. They also take a whole day in settled conditions to do it.
A 17ft motor cruiser with a 9.9 outboard (no spare?) with only 5 gals of fuel and six crew is a recipe for disaster - I suggest you try a few short coastal hops and you'll see what more enlightened folk are driving at. I also doubt your fuel consumption claims.
Don't forget - you also have the return trip to consider
Lots of 17ft sailing boats have made it across because they are powered by wind, built to go to sea, and only have one or two people on board. They also take a whole day in settled conditions to do it.
A 17ft motor cruiser with a 9.9 outboard (no spare?) with only 5 gals of fuel and six crew is a recipe for disaster - I suggest you try a few short coastal hops and you'll see what more enlightened folk are driving at. I also doubt your fuel consumption claims.
Don't forget - you also have the return trip to consider
tico
Well-known member
DFTT!
Chris_d
Well-known member
This windup has all the hallmarks of banned poster Happy1, the poster is posing as an idiot but argues too well, good one pete
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
This windup has all the hallmarks of banned poster Happy1, the poster is posing as an idiot but argues too well, good one pete
Spot on. In a minute he'll be telling us that he's taking a coffee machine and a toaster as essential safety equipment.
Cheers
Jimmy
bendyone
Well-known member
Yes it is possible given the right weather conditions, maybe best not to have 6 on board but with 2 possible with a certain amount of safety equipment.
As far as I know there are no free long term moorings in Calais although the bouys outside the lock to the marina are generally not charged for but they can be a bit uncomfortable. The only other place is the small drying harbour where if you keep your head down no one should bother you.
You do not need a ICC if you stay in Calais but will need it with endorsements to go into the canal system together with a inland waterways licence. The boat will need a SSR number, be insured and you will need passports.
I have never been asked for more paperwork than this
As far as I know there are no free long term moorings in Calais although the bouys outside the lock to the marina are generally not charged for but they can be a bit uncomfortable. The only other place is the small drying harbour where if you keep your head down no one should bother you.
You do not need a ICC if you stay in Calais but will need it with endorsements to go into the canal system together with a inland waterways licence. The boat will need a SSR number, be insured and you will need passports.
I have never been asked for more paperwork than this
duncan
Active member
This windup has all the hallmarks of banned poster Happy1, the poster is posing as an idiot but argues too well, good one pete
agree the analysis but rang Pete and it's not him!
Searush
New member
The phrase "see the happy idiot" springs to mind. I have an old atlas in the car, he can have that if he wants . . .
Major Catastrophe
New member
Now I know this is a wind up.
Check the HIN plate on the boat and see the passenger rating.
I suspect for a 17' boat it will be a maximum of 4, or 5.
As to insurance, no, you may feel it is unnecessary, but should you have a mishap on the way over or back, the courts will have a field day with you for an overloaded boat, with I suspect, this thread being the star prosecution evidence.
Then the relatives will start suing you until you just have the clothes you are standing up in.
I have a 21' Antares 650, which is a sturdy boat with a 90hp engine and an 8hp auxiliary.
It is rated for 6 adults, according to the HIN plate, but for all except very local trips, I like to keep it down to 4 or 5 and for bad weather and long trips no more than 4.
If this is genuine, you need your head looking at.
If anything, do it with just two of you and with the proper equipment, to test the water.
aquapower
New member
where do 6 people sleep on a 17 foot boat? Although I doubt you would sleep worrying about the return trip (assuming you made it there)
Firefly625
Well-known member
The phrase "see the happy idiot" springs to mind. I have an old atlas in the car, he can have that if he wants . . .
I think I have a tea towel with a map of the UK I would happily donate...
Come on, certainly a troll, he argues too well my lord... But certainly very funny..
Wiggo
New member
OK, so leaving the issue of this being a troll for a moment, let's get some facts straight...
1. VHF Operators Certificate / Ship's Radio License. I have no idea if you need one or not in international waters, but as both the UK and French territorial waters extend 12 miles offshore, and the crossing is only 20 miles, you will never actually be in international waters. Get stopped inside the 12 mile limit and you will require both.
2. Paperwork. The French authorities require, and may wish to inspect, your vessel's registration certificate (SSR / Part 3 Registration = Small Ships Register details here: http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/ukr-home/pleasurecraft-smallships.htm). They will also require you to be in posession of an International Certificate of Competence, proof of insurance (insurance certificate with a French translation), proof of VAT status and to have your ICC CEVNI endorsed if you wish to use the inland waterways. You may also require an ATIS enabled VHF for inland use, but I'm not 100% on that one. You will also need passports and I suggest you take EU medical cards.
3. Speed and range. You stated in your first post, "This moves the boat along no problem, but going against the tide, even at full throttle, the boat does slow to walking place." So let's say 4 knots if you are punching the tide or (more realistically) you have less than perfect sea conditions. Including the bits for leaving and entering harbour, that makes for a 5-6 hour crossing. The old rule of thumb for 2 strokes was 1/2 pint per hp per hour at full chat, so a 2T would burn close to 4 gallons in six hours. I'll accept 4 strokes as being more efficient, so you could carry enough fuel.
4. Loading / overloading. Six (or even eight) on a 17 footer is OK on a river or in a harbour but I personally believe will be dangerously overloaded at sea. Think of the logistics: do you have seating for 6 people and enough room to stow their gear (I assume you're not planning to get to Calais, turn around and come straight back)? How will you cope with a seasick crewmember for 5 hours? Toilet facilities: standing up and peeing over the side in a 3 foot chop at 4 knots will be messy, not to say risky.
5. Safety gear and spares. You will need six lifejackets, spare fuel, food and drink (not alcoholic), a first aid kit, flares, engine spares and tools. You will also need navigation gear and the ability to use it: a fine day in Dover can easily turn into a fog bound choppy nightmare mid channel in a matter of minutes. A mobile phone with a built in GPS will not do. Given the storage available in a 17 foot boat, I doubt there will be room for a 6 man liferaft, so if it all goes wrong you will be relying on lifejackets, so best have a floating waterproof handheld VHF as well. On the subject of which, you're going to need foul weather gear and warm clothing, too. Your survival time in the water in only shorts and T-shirt will be as little as a couple of hours.
As others have said, this trip is quite feasible for a couple or three experienced people with the right gear in the right conditions. For the wrong crew on the wrong day, it's a tragedy waiting to happen.
1. VHF Operators Certificate / Ship's Radio License. I have no idea if you need one or not in international waters, but as both the UK and French territorial waters extend 12 miles offshore, and the crossing is only 20 miles, you will never actually be in international waters. Get stopped inside the 12 mile limit and you will require both.
2. Paperwork. The French authorities require, and may wish to inspect, your vessel's registration certificate (SSR / Part 3 Registration = Small Ships Register details here: http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/ukr-home/pleasurecraft-smallships.htm). They will also require you to be in posession of an International Certificate of Competence, proof of insurance (insurance certificate with a French translation), proof of VAT status and to have your ICC CEVNI endorsed if you wish to use the inland waterways. You may also require an ATIS enabled VHF for inland use, but I'm not 100% on that one. You will also need passports and I suggest you take EU medical cards.
3. Speed and range. You stated in your first post, "This moves the boat along no problem, but going against the tide, even at full throttle, the boat does slow to walking place." So let's say 4 knots if you are punching the tide or (more realistically) you have less than perfect sea conditions. Including the bits for leaving and entering harbour, that makes for a 5-6 hour crossing. The old rule of thumb for 2 strokes was 1/2 pint per hp per hour at full chat, so a 2T would burn close to 4 gallons in six hours. I'll accept 4 strokes as being more efficient, so you could carry enough fuel.
4. Loading / overloading. Six (or even eight) on a 17 footer is OK on a river or in a harbour but I personally believe will be dangerously overloaded at sea. Think of the logistics: do you have seating for 6 people and enough room to stow their gear (I assume you're not planning to get to Calais, turn around and come straight back)? How will you cope with a seasick crewmember for 5 hours? Toilet facilities: standing up and peeing over the side in a 3 foot chop at 4 knots will be messy, not to say risky.
5. Safety gear and spares. You will need six lifejackets, spare fuel, food and drink (not alcoholic), a first aid kit, flares, engine spares and tools. You will also need navigation gear and the ability to use it: a fine day in Dover can easily turn into a fog bound choppy nightmare mid channel in a matter of minutes. A mobile phone with a built in GPS will not do. Given the storage available in a 17 foot boat, I doubt there will be room for a 6 man liferaft, so if it all goes wrong you will be relying on lifejackets, so best have a floating waterproof handheld VHF as well. On the subject of which, you're going to need foul weather gear and warm clothing, too. Your survival time in the water in only shorts and T-shirt will be as little as a couple of hours.
As others have said, this trip is quite feasible for a couple or three experienced people with the right gear in the right conditions. For the wrong crew on the wrong day, it's a tragedy waiting to happen.
iangrant
New member
Well many have tried to help
Good advice, well presented but obviously falling on deaf ears.
It seems the OP is determined to be right about the fact that his 17' boat can do it with 6 people on board, and to be honest why should we care now that he is not taking heed of the advice he originally asked for?
Sadly if attempted it may well turn out to be another statistic for the Coast Guard, the poor old RNLI crews will almost certainly be out looking for the wreckage and bodies.
Original poster, if this is a wind up then it's a good one, (done a couple myself I must confess), if it's not, then dismiss the advice on hers and may the nautical gods be with you on your epic voyage, it's a big sea out there and it's calling you (to the depths)
Ian
Good advice, well presented but obviously falling on deaf ears.
It seems the OP is determined to be right about the fact that his 17' boat can do it with 6 people on board, and to be honest why should we care now that he is not taking heed of the advice he originally asked for?
Sadly if attempted it may well turn out to be another statistic for the Coast Guard, the poor old RNLI crews will almost certainly be out looking for the wreckage and bodies.
Original poster, if this is a wind up then it's a good one, (done a couple myself I must confess), if it's not, then dismiss the advice on hers and may the nautical gods be with you on your epic voyage, it's a big sea out there and it's calling you (to the depths)
Ian
bendyone
Well-known member
2. Paperwork. The French authorities require, and may wish to inspect, your vessel's registration certificate (SSR / Part 3 Registration = Small Ships Register details here: http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/ukr-hom...smallships.htm). They will also require you to be in posession of an International Certificate of Competence, proof of insurance (insurance certificate with a French translation), proof of VAT status and to have your ICC CEVNI endorsed if you wish to use the inland waterways. You may also require an ATIS enabled VHF for inland use, but I'm not 100% on that one. You will also need passports and I suggest you take EU medical cards.
Agree with the above but you DO NOT need a ICC for French coastal waters. I have a letter for the CEO of the RYA telling me this.
Agree with the above but you DO NOT need a ICC for French coastal waters. I have a letter for the CEO of the RYA telling me this.
Wiggo
New member
I stand corrected, you are quite right about coastal waters. I think the med is different, though. Cue thread: "Dover to Palma in a 17 foot boat. OK with 8 people and a mobile phone?"
