100mph in Southampton Water

[Keen_Ed]

One of the issues seems to be that of poorly marked fishing pots – something, I suspect, that we can all sympathise with. The report noted that the relevant authorities could not be held responsible for these dangerous floats.

How about this? The relevant authorities in the Southampton Water take one of their launches and haul out any fishing equipment that does not fulfil the necessary requirements. They confiscate this equipment and fine the fishermen who have put these illegal floats into the water.

If they were to do that, I think we would very soon see that all these detergent containers which litter our waters would very soon disappear.

If you read the report, they had received a legal opinion stating that doing that was probably illegal - i.e. theft.

 

[Keen_Ed]

I know people just can't resist using the 100mph figure when they are putting their case for why this incident happened but have they not read the detail of the report. The driver had already completed his "100mph" run and then completed a 180 degree turn before accelerating back up to the region of 90mph before he decelerated on the approach to the Hamble and then upon reaching the turning point started his turn into the river. It was during this turn that he saw the pot markers ahead and took the avoiding action. Although his speed wasn't recorded at the time of the incident it was clearly not 100mph and given he was about to enter the Hamble it was likely considerably less than some are supposing.

Yes he made a mistake, yes if he had been going slower the consequences of that mistake would have been less, but ultimately he didn't hit what he was trying to avoid so I really can't see what all the fuss is about. I'm sure he regrets not using appropriate safety equipment, especially given the only real casualty was his own son, and perhaps he was reckless not to. I don't know enough about power boats to say if what happened was something he could have reasonably predicted, after all these are offshore power boats designed to bounce off big waves at high speed so I would have thought a run on Southampton water would just be another day in the office, and it's not as if it's not been used to give joy rides before..... but whatever people conclude it happened and everybody is older and wiser for it. Personally I just think this is one pretty incredible piece of equipment and I'd quite like a go if anyone has one I can borrow.......

The fuss is a) OK, he didn't hit anybody - thankfully but b) he did require rescuing.

But then I think that people who use emergency services from reckless behaviour should be charged for the privilege. Too pissed on a Saturday night and end up in hospital? Pay up. Why should my taxes support your stupidity?

 

[mainsail1]

Are you suggesting that all high speed boating should be banned?

To me, and speed has no thrill, it appears that a highly skilled crew (with passengers) got snagged by a fishing float. A fishing float that was well camouflaged; as my friends in the military would say "blue on blue" and this case it almost killed the crew.

I am not in to banning. All I want is for people to act responsibly and have consideration for other members of the public. I felt on this occasion they lost touch with what was a sensible and considerate maximum speed in Southampton Water and having read the comment from the owner/driver of the powerboat I realise that he still just does not 'get it'.

 

[thecommander]

The motorboat forum elite jumped to the crews defence straight away.

One poster even went as far as saying the MAIB report was amateur, weak, naive.

 

[thecommander]

According to The Daily Echo, the team (Vector) are taking legal advice regarding the information contained in the MAIB report.

Stinks of sour grapes from Vector... Can people no longer admit they made a mistake and move one.

 

[smert]

I am not in to banning. All I want is for people to act responsibly and have consideration for other members of the public. I felt on this occasion they lost touch with what was a sensible and considerate maximum speed in Southampton Water and having read the comment from the owner/driver of the powerboat I realise that he still just does not 'get it'.

So what in your opinion should the driver have done? Given that he was testing a boat that is designed to be very fast.

 

[{151760}]

So what in your opinion should the driver have done? Given that he was testing a boat that is designed to be very fast.

1. Consider going somewhere less used to do the run.
2. Have at least one attendant boat to check the proposed course for fishing floats, other traffic etc.
3. Tell the coastguard of their intentions.
None of this requires formal regulation or would overly hinder the test; it's just a responsible way of doing it.

 

[Resolution]

The motorboat forum elite jumped to the crews defence straight away.

One poster even went as far as saying the MAIB report was amateur, weak, naive.

Commander, you sound quite angry about this. Do you have a special angle? As a newish poster on the forum it would be good to have a bit of background on your boating activities, so we can understand better where you are coming from. Please do fill us in.
Peter
(Apologies for the thread drift.)

 

[teredo]

1. Consider going somewhere less used to do the run.
2. Have at least one attendant boat to check the proposed course for fishing floats, other traffic etc.
3. Tell the coastguard of their intentions.
None of this requires formal regulation or would overly hinder the test; it's just a responsible way of doing it.

Just imagine the howls of fury if a mobo forum suggested all sailing boats should "inform the coastguard" whenever they went out! Does anyone really think a0 the CG are the least bit interested, 2) "informing" someone in a uniform prevents accidents (!!!) 3) that more bureaucratic control is required to prevent accidents?

Are we really minded to give away our freedom of the water just because one mobo had an accident?

I'm off to Tesco now. Oops! Must just call the D of T hotline to tell them.

 

[snooks]

PS. I asume any posters on this thread, including those in the yachting trade, will note if they have connections with the parties when commenting.

I have no connections, that I know of, with the parties involved and have never been on a Vector boat or involved with the company.

I have however driven powerboats at over 90mph in the Solent and been on board boats doing a similar speed on Southampton Water many times, as well as doing over 100 mph in the Solent.

It amazes me that after one accident there is sudden outrage :0) Yet there are many accidents on yachts everyone is happy to forget.

Funny how, after decades boat travelling at high speed up Southampton water – when it's not busy so they aren't inconveniencing anyone – it hasn't been a problem.

How often has this sort of accident happened? The fact I don't know, and I'm not aware of another incident like this in the last 15-20 years would suggest it's pretty safe to have been doing what they and many others have been doing. By contrast, I can think of many incidents in the Solent involving yachts.

Even with speed limits in place it's still possible to get permission from VTS to exceed those limits, so the odds are this accident would have still happened, the only difference would be that VTS would have known about the testing.

Accidents happen. If you get upset about speed and want to save lives, go to any local road with a 30mph zone and campaign there. There are better places to concentrate your efforts than a wide open and well-protected stretch of water.

 

[Keen_Ed]

...
2. Have at least one attendant boat to check the proposed course for fishing floats...

This is the one I agree with. Pot markers, lumps of wood etc are hardly unknown in the Solent. If you're going to be going so fast that you can't steer out the way without flipping the boat, then it's your responsibility to make sure the area is clear.

 

[mainsail1]

I have no connections, that I know of, with the parties involved and have never been on a Vector boat or involved with the company.

I have however driven powerboats at over 90mph in the Solent and been on board boats doing a similar speed on Southampton Water many times, as well as doing over 100 mph in the Solent.

It amazes me that after one accident there is sudden outrage :0) Yet there are many accidents on yachts everyone is happy to forget.

Funny how, after decades boat travelling at high speed up Southampton water – when it's not busy so they aren't inconveniencing anyone – it hasn't been a problem.

How often has this sort of accident happened? The fact I don't know, and I'm not aware of another incident like this in the last 15-20 years would suggest it's pretty safe to have been doing what they and many others have been doing. By contrast, I can think of many incidents in the Solent involving yachts.

Even with speed limits in place it's still possible to get permission from VTS to exceed those limits, so the odds are this accident would have still happened, the only difference would be that VTS would have known about the testing.

Accidents happen. If you get upset about speed and want to save lives, go to any local road with a 30mph zone and campaign there. There are better places to concentrate your efforts than a wide open and well-protected stretch of water.

The thing is, you can get away with silly stuff for a long time before the inevitable accident happens.
I vividly remember sailing in the Solent and being frightened out of my wits when a crowd of very high speed powerboats shot by in a group. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see their boat control was on a knife edge and that one day there would be a horrible accident.
If the type of speeding we have seen in this case continues in confined waters I have no doubt there will be another far worse accident. It's just a matter of time.

 

[pmagowan]

I have no connections, that I know of, with the parties involved and have never been on a Vector boat or involved with the company.

I have however driven powerboats at over 90mph in the Solent and been on board boats doing a similar speed on Southampton Water many times, as well as doing over 100 mph in the Solent.

It amazes me that after one accident there is sudden outrage :0) Yet there are many accidents on yachts everyone is happy to forget.

Funny how, after decades boat travelling at high speed up Southampton water – when it's not busy so they aren't inconveniencing anyone – it hasn't been a problem.

How often has this sort of accident happened? The fact I don't know, and I'm not aware of another incident like this in the last 15-20 years would suggest it's pretty safe to have been doing what they and many others have been doing. By contrast, I can think of many incidents in the Solent involving yachts.

Even with speed limits in place it's still possible to get permission from VTS to exceed those limits, so the odds are this accident would have still happened, the only difference would be that VTS would have known about the testing.

Accidents happen. If you get upset about speed and want to save lives, go to any local road with a 30mph zone and campaign there. There are better places to concentrate your efforts than a wide open and well-protected stretch of water.

I am not sure that analysis holds much water. Otherwise you could say BASE jumping from Big Ben is safe because nobody has died yet doing it. Speed is not a problem, as such. It is the irresponsible use of speed in a public place without due care and attention that is the problem.

The bottom line is that they crashed and thus something went badly wrong. In this case it is clear that wasn't simply a random mistake or unpreventable mishap. Someone was driving a boat with insufficient care considering their speed. They took insufficient care of their passengers and had insufficient understanding of their surroundings. That buoy could have been divers, like he thought, and he was unable to safely avoid them.

If you own a boat you have a responsibility to other water users, your crew and your hobby to act in a reasonable manner. In a sailboat that could mean obeying colregs or warning crew of the boom. On a 100mph speedboat that means making sure your course is clear and that everyone on board is wearing their protective equipment. That buoy did not suddenly appear, I presume it was there all day. Everyone makes mistakes but when there is a catalogue of mistakes leading up to a crash causing serious injuries and risk to life then you must question the judgment of the skipper.

We don't need more regulation but we do need people to take responsibility for their actions and to learn from them. A failure to do so, or an attitude of protectionism does risk regulation being imposed.

 

[mainsail1]

So what in your opinion should the driver have done? Given that he was testing a boat that is designed to be very fast.

It is, of course the speed that makes the danger, not just to themselves but to others nearby. In some instances the owner of the vessel should consider whether it is even appropriate to go ahead with a test for safety reasons.
I think StormNorm got it about right.
The attendant boat could check for not only lobster pots but kayaks, capsized sailing dinghies, floating logs and so on.
The reason for telling the coastguard is that he should have a clear picture of what is going on around the area and may have information about ship movements etc that are important. The Coastguard could also issue a broadcast on VHF to warn other vessels in the area.

 

[snooks]

The thing is, you can get away with silly stuff for a long time before the inevitable accident happens. 8< snip >8

If the type of speeding we have seen in this case continues in confined waters I have no doubt there will be another far worse accident. It's just a matter of time.

I agree completely, if everyone continues to sail without crash hemlets on, people will continue to be hit by the boom and die.

We should all be sailing with crash helmets on. After all "you can get away with silly stuff for a long time before the inevitable accident happens"

So which is more dangerous, the accidents that are killing or injuring people every single year in the Solent, or the ones that aren't?

Which should be the priority here, the accidents that are happening, or the ones which might?

 

[pmagowan]

I agree completely, if everyone continues to sail without crash hemlets on, people will continue to be hit by the boom and die.

We should all be sailing with crash helmets on. After all "you can get away with silly stuff for a long time before the inevitable accident happens"

So which is more dangerous, the accidents that are killing or injuring people every single year in the Solent, or the ones that aren't?

Which should be the priority here, the accidents that are happening, or the ones which might?

Accidents are not the problem. Recklessly putting others at risk is.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Accidents are not the problem. Recklessly putting others at risk is.

So it's lucky that wasn't the case here then isn't it.

 

[pmagowan]

So it's lucky that wasn't the case here then isn't it.

No, here they were not just put at risk they suffered the consequences of that risk. However through sheer luck neither the crew or other users of the water were killed.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I agree completely, if everyone continues to sail without crash hemlets on, people will continue to be hit by the boom and die.

We should all be sailing with crash helmets on. After all "you can get away with silly stuff for a long time before the inevitable accident happens"

So which is more dangerous, the accidents that are killing or injuring people every single year in the Solent, or the ones that aren't?

Which should be the priority here, the accidents that are happening, or the ones which might?

Good summary. As someone who lost a close relation (and a bit of a hero) killed in a sailing race due in part to massive head injuries I do find the rather chippy comments from some of the sailing fraternity more than a little irritating.

I was out in the 'crowded' Southampton Water and Solent last week I think I saw about half a dozen other pleasure vessel over four hours - plus BAR Land Rover zipping about apparently using me as a turning mark - great fun and a wonderful spectacle. If you want a risk free life stay at home (it won't be risk free in fact but at least you won't worry so much).

Oh an while I'm at it Atalanta of Chester/Hanne Knutsen, now that was stupidity.

 

[yesod]

Accidents are not the problem. Recklessly putting others at risk is.

you're right. we should put a stop to large, fast boats charging down the western solent, recklessly endangering other water users for a bit of fun. shame though, the round the island race and fastnet race were quite entertaining - but needs must...