Wansworth
Well-known member
what size and type of boat would fit the bill these days and would it be possible?
£200 millionaire
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
Sybarite
Well-known member
I always have in mind Maurice Griffiths' own retirement boat "Kylix".
https://www.google.fr/search?tbm=is....0j0i30k1.0.bKPznIPFyCc#imgrc=v-w_G5zu19zKxM:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=Kyli...#imgdii=DZIrrFyaVoMtJM:&imgrc=ugauZzNTNw0RPM:
Obviously the £200 needs updating.
https://www.google.fr/search?tbm=is....0j0i30k1.0.bKPznIPFyCc#imgrc=v-w_G5zu19zKxM:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=Kyli...#imgdii=DZIrrFyaVoMtJM:&imgrc=ugauZzNTNw0RPM:
Obviously the £200 needs updating.
ANDY_W
Active member
I take it that you are referring to the story by Weston Martyr in which the gentleman of the story spoke of wandering all over Europes' coastal and inland waterways and of the people and experiences he encountered.
He had a limited, but adequate, income which he made go much further by buying the highest quality he could afford. This saved him money because what he did buy lasted for
so long that he was better off in the long run.
This, combined with the wealth of his experiences, made him feel that he could be no better off if he were a millionaire
In our highly regulated times, I doubt that it would be possible without much filling of forms and obtaining necessary qualifications.
Additionally, one would have to be prepared to lead a much less sophisticated life than we do today.
As to the boat, one can assume that, in the time of the story, it would be wooden hulled,
probably gaff rigged, without electrics and, almost certainly, no engine.
I say gaff rigged because he speaks of buying good quality hemp rope which lasts so much longer than cheaper stuff. A bermudan rig would have had galvanised wire rigging.
There is no mention of using boatyard services, so the assumption must be that all maintenance is carried out by the owner.
For the equivalent boat today, perhaps a fibreglass hull, gaff rigged with traditional rope rigging and small ( non electronic ) air cooled diesel engine. Minimal electrical equipment, enough for navigation lights and interior lighting, and to charge a lap top or ipad needed for weather and regulation information. No electronics other than a VHF ( essential in some areas for permission to proceed ). Length between 30 and 35 feet to give enough stowage for books, tools and spares. Wood burning stove.
In the spirit of the story, keep it simple but high quality.
Andy
He had a limited, but adequate, income which he made go much further by buying the highest quality he could afford. This saved him money because what he did buy lasted for
so long that he was better off in the long run.
This, combined with the wealth of his experiences, made him feel that he could be no better off if he were a millionaire
In our highly regulated times, I doubt that it would be possible without much filling of forms and obtaining necessary qualifications.
Additionally, one would have to be prepared to lead a much less sophisticated life than we do today.
As to the boat, one can assume that, in the time of the story, it would be wooden hulled,
probably gaff rigged, without electrics and, almost certainly, no engine.
I say gaff rigged because he speaks of buying good quality hemp rope which lasts so much longer than cheaper stuff. A bermudan rig would have had galvanised wire rigging.
There is no mention of using boatyard services, so the assumption must be that all maintenance is carried out by the owner.
For the equivalent boat today, perhaps a fibreglass hull, gaff rigged with traditional rope rigging and small ( non electronic ) air cooled diesel engine. Minimal electrical equipment, enough for navigation lights and interior lighting, and to charge a lap top or ipad needed for weather and regulation information. No electronics other than a VHF ( essential in some areas for permission to proceed ). Length between 30 and 35 feet to give enough stowage for books, tools and spares. Wood burning stove.
In the spirit of the story, keep it simple but high quality.
Andy
NealB
Well-known member
I think, in the current market, it's very possible, as long as we're allowed to up the budget for inflation.
I reluctantly sold a lovely Trident 24 for under £700, a few months ago. She had a reliable Beta diesel, and very good sails, plotter and decent inventory.
She'd be the ideal boat for the modern £200 millionaire: capable, very easily handled, cheap to maintain, and plenty comfortable enough.
Why am I still working? Why did I sell her?
I seem to have forgotten the profound lessons of Weston Martyr, that I first read in the mid-60's.
A truly seminal book.
Thank you for the reminder.
I reluctantly sold a lovely Trident 24 for under £700, a few months ago. She had a reliable Beta diesel, and very good sails, plotter and decent inventory.
She'd be the ideal boat for the modern £200 millionaire: capable, very easily handled, cheap to maintain, and plenty comfortable enough.
Why am I still working? Why did I sell her?
I seem to have forgotten the profound lessons of Weston Martyr, that I first read in the mid-60's.
A truly seminal book.
Thank you for the reminder.
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NealB
Well-known member
With average inflation of 5.2% pa compound, £200 pa in 1932, is equivalent to around £9400 pa today.
Tranona
Well-known member
That is pretty close to what is possible these days. If you look on the Liveaboard forum you often find threads on the subject and the general consensus is that a couple can live on a boat in the med reasonably comfortably on £1000 a month. The trick is to keep away from marinas, eat out rarely and don;t travel sightseeing or going back to the UK.
It would be quite possible to live on a boat in the French canal system for even less as there are minimal mooring costs, low running costs as you can't go far or fast and readily available food supplies.
As for boat, a motor sailer such as a 29' Colvic would be ideal. In fact if you go back 15 years in PBO you will find lots of articles by Colin and Rita Jones who did that every year from April to October in the French canals on that sort of budget.
langstonelayabout
Well-known member
Can you please improve the title to this thread?
I had already started thinking about which J Class boat could I afford with GBP 200,000,000. If there were none available then I wondered about buying the 12m Lionheart and getting another bendy top rig made. The stuff of dreams when I was a kid.
But GBP 9,400 will buy a pleasant 80's 27-30 footer. Should be able to get some nice sailing with one of those!
I had already started thinking about which J Class boat could I afford with GBP 200,000,000. If there were none available then I wondered about buying the 12m Lionheart and getting another bendy top rig made. The stuff of dreams when I was a kid.
But GBP 9,400 will buy a pleasant 80's 27-30 footer. Should be able to get some nice sailing with one of those!
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
According to the Bank of England inflation calculator (https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation), £200 in 1932 was the equivalent of £13,271.60 in 2017.
NealB
Well-known member
Thank you!
Rather shockingly, I was ten years out (under) in my calculation of time.
Great news for our 'millionaire' though.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
I like the BofE calculator because it goes back so far - to the 13th century.
Sybarite
Well-known member
The boat did in fact have an engine.
Here are two extracts :
"We went aboard and found the green sloop to be one of the cleverest little ships imaginable. It is difficult to describe her gear on deck and aloft without being technical; suffice it to say, therefore, that everything was very eff'cient and simple, and so designed that all sail could be set or lowered by the man at the helm without leaving the cockpit. The boat was 30 feet long by 9 feet wide, and my short wife, at any rate, could stand upright in her cabin. Her fore end was a storeroom, full of convenient lockers, shelves and a small but adequate water-closet. Abaft this came the cabin, an apartment 12 feet long, with a broad bunk along one side of it and a comfortable settee along the other. A table with hinged flaps stood in the middle, while in the four corners were a wardrobe, a desk, a pantry and a galley. Abaft all this was a motor, hidden beneath the cockpit floor. A clock ticked on one bulkhead, a rack full of books ran along the other, a tray of pipes lay on the table, and a copper kettle sang softly to itself on the little stove."
"This is a summary of my first twelve months' income and outgoings: £ s. d. Income 190 0 0 Expenditure: Upkeep of boat (at 9s. per week) 23 8 0 Petrol and oil £10 4 0 (distance covered under motor 1220 miles) Charts, canal dues £13 8 0 Food, drink, clothes, light and heat £100 0 0 (at just under £2 a week) £147 0 0 Balance £43 0 0 ££190 0 0 'I managed to save £43, you see, that first year, enough to buy a new boat like this one, every five years, if I continued to save at the same rate. I was extra careful that year. I didn't spend much on myself, but I bought the boat all she needed and kept her up in first-class shape. I painted her inside once and three times outside, doing it all myself, and I had her sails tanned to preserve them. The tanning was done by a fisherman I made friends with in Toulon. He did a good job. In the end he wouldn't let me pay for anything except the cost of the materials, because he said we were amis and he liked English sailors. And one day I came across a broken-down motor-boat, drifting off Cape Camaret, and towed her into port. Her owner was scared to death, and very grateful accordingly. He was no sailor, but he was a mighty good mechanic, and he insisted on giving my little engine a first-class overhaul, just to show his gratitude."
For the full story :
http://www.bluemoment.com/200pm.html
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Sybarite
Well-known member
The £200 relates to both the price of the boat and to his annual budget.
AndrewB
Well-known member
But what about inflation on yachts? Using the BofE calculator, the 24' yacht I bought in 1974 cost rather more in real terms than the 38' yacht I bought in 2014. By the same reckoning, a £200 yacht from 1932 would equate to perhaps a £25,000 yacht today. With £13,000 pa for one person to live on, it sounds less and less spartan by the minute!
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Tranona
Well-known member
In that case you could do it very comfortably these days - in fact many people are, both on european waterways and in the UK. The £13k would buy a very capable boat (although a decent narrowboat in the UK would be more) and £13k living costs (twice the UK state pension!) would allow for wine in bottles at least!
doug748
Well-known member
I think the 200 quid was only a remarkably small amount one toff to another. It's probably 2 1/2 times what agricultural workers were earning and twice what a skilled craftsman would bring home in the period. I base this partly on remembering my father saying:
" .....before the war skilled tradesmen were on 2 pounds a week, bus conductors 30 bob"
I don't trust the inflation money sites too much on the matter, they seem to overplay the buying power of past very low income groups.
However that is a bagatelle, I agree with the others £13,000 would be very comfy as long as you avoid mobile phones, fridges, meals out, marinas and flights home, etc. I'd say, there is the rub.
" .....before the war skilled tradesmen were on 2 pounds a week, bus conductors 30 bob"
I don't trust the inflation money sites too much on the matter, they seem to overplay the buying power of past very low income groups.
However that is a bagatelle, I agree with the others £13,000 would be very comfy as long as you avoid mobile phones, fridges, meals out, marinas and flights home, etc. I'd say, there is the rub.
newtothis
Well-known member
It's been a few years since I read it, but I believe the man in question was single and got his entire social life from talking to random strangers, so no need for mobiles, meals out or flights home. A working knowledge of the major European languages would appear necessary, however, although in those days that mainly involved speaking slowly and loudly so Johnny Foreigner would understand.
Corribee Boy
Well-known member
You may be pleased to know that Kylix is still in regular use, moored at Wrabness.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
Oops! Just realized that it wasn't the man himself but his biographer's wife.
Of course, there were no mobiles or flights home at the time of the book. Most educated men of the day would have at least a little schoolboy French (girls less likely, though my mother had German School Certificate from a pre-war education); French was still a compulsory subject when I did my O-levels in the 1960s, along with Latin! The income of £200 p.a. is, as others have suggested, higher than the likely income of a blue-collar worker of the time.
Nick Costen
New member
As others are saying, the thing to remember is that incomes tend to rise (i.e. we all get richer) over time, even if the value of money is falling at the same time. It makes sense; we tend to have more "stuff" than previous generations.
I've often found this website useful for these purposes: https://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ukcompare/
It reports that £200 in 1932 equates with a 2017 price value of £13,200, as others have said, but an income equivalence of £35,900. I don't think we'd be surprised at the notion of a single man with an unearned income of £36,000 having a pretty good time. And such an income would probably run to some mobile phones and flights home.
As it also says, the sum equivalent to £100,000 on "output", but that includes effects for the change in national population, and is intended for getting a sense of things like the number of battleships the country could afford.
Nick
I've often found this website useful for these purposes: https://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ukcompare/
It reports that £200 in 1932 equates with a 2017 price value of £13,200, as others have said, but an income equivalence of £35,900. I don't think we'd be surprised at the notion of a single man with an unearned income of £36,000 having a pretty good time. And such an income would probably run to some mobile phones and flights home.
As it also says, the sum equivalent to £100,000 on "output", but that includes effects for the change in national population, and is intended for getting a sense of things like the number of battleships the country could afford.
Nick
Cheery
Well-known member
Surely flights home is an oxymoron as you are a liveaborad? Aside from a few family and close friends funerals I can see no other reason to return here from an idyllic life.
