JStordy
Member
Rear cabin no good for me - i need a flat entry at the back for the Boss - she has parkinsons so a big swim platform and easy entry is great
Moving to Power
- Thread starter JStordy
- Start date
lionelz
Member
As for outdrive, there is nothing wrong with them as long as they are looked after, a shaft is of course much easier to service as well as cheaper. Just some people have a real dislike for them, all I would say if they were so bad why do so many boats have them ? However as an experiences sailor, you will know all boats are a compromise unless you have a few 100 million to spend
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
Maybe or maybe not. TAMD63P a good engine. At that age it’s also down to spec and condition. And owner’s inflated ideas of the boat’s value. You should go see them all.
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
True. Some obvious benefits of outdrives might include fuel efficiency and space saving. Sporty handling. Joystick support. Lower draft.
kashurst
Well-known member
I did a calculation a while back on outdrives V shafts. Roughly for a 40" boat outdrives are worth it if you do more than 500 miles a year. Otherwise keep it simple and go with shafts. Have you looked at Nimbus 370 commanders?
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
We're the same but not for the same reason, but it had the same effect on the search in that otherwise-good boats were out of contention.
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
On servicing cost vs fuel efficiency you mean? Outdrive services on my boat about £1200 a year. Fuel burn about 3.5L/NM. Same boat with shafts probably use 5L/NM. Extra 1.5 L/NM or at £1 a litre 60/40 that's about £1.50 a mile or c. 800 miles. Knock some off as the shafts willl still need some work. Could be about right
Woo. Man Maths.
Last edited:
Fishtigua
Active member
Shaft drive, inside/outside helm, wide side decks, aft cabin all for under 100k?
Aquastar.
Aquastar.
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
OP doesn’t want aft cabin...
oldgit
Well-known member
Some thoughts.
Sometimes there is a choice but small boats sometimes only came with outdrives.
It was much cheaper and quicker for any boat builder to install an outdrive using unskilled labour.
Jig against the transom, cut the holes and bolt in your transom assembly.
No messing with bolting together engine gearbox and lining up shafts, a skilled and time consuming job, costing the builder money.
The only servicing of shafts was when stuff wore out relating to use and hours run. Usually years and years and a £50 cutlass bearing.
Outdrives passed to the buyer responsiblity for everlasting additional regular future expence of constantly having to service the bits that outdrives use to prevent water getting in and oil getting out..
The seller saves money and the buyer picks up the bill. Whats not to like.
The fuel saving agument is also a bit wobbly.
Unless you go from pontoon to WOT instantly and remain on the plane until your destinnation all those claimed savings will not be achieved .
Bet most journies involve faffing about a few knots to clear speed restrictions avoid wash to other craft , a limit time at speed and then some more faffing while you anchor or moor at your destination.
Sold a 33ft boat with outdrives (blessed be that day ) and purchased a 36 ft boat with shafts. Fuel burn was virtually indentical. Both boats were doing around 150 hours PA.
Those of us with aspirations but no money usually start out with outdrives, you will suffer and defend them but at some point the penny will drop.
Last edited:
Greg2
Well-known member
In the interests of balance it is worth saying that oldgit has a strong dislike for outdrives, which he expresses frequently.
He is right inasmuch as they can be troublesome but if properly maintained they can also be trouble free. My preference is for shafts but we are now on our third (of five) boat with outdrives because that is what many boats of our size have. Dismissing all boats with outdrives would severely restrict choice in the sector that the OP is interested in.
Also worth saying that it isn’t just about costs to builders, it is also about creating more usable accommodation because the engines are at the back of the boat.
He is right inasmuch as they can be troublesome but if properly maintained they can also be trouble free. My preference is for shafts but we are now on our third (of five) boat with outdrives because that is what many boats of our size have. Dismissing all boats with outdrives would severely restrict choice in the sector that the OP is interested in.
Also worth saying that it isn’t just about costs to builders, it is also about creating more usable accommodation because the engines are at the back of the boat.
BruceK
Well-known member
Some people cant see for the forest for the trees. Unless you are on Z shaft which brings it's own set of problems outdrives do not cost more when taken into total costs. Outdrives free up an enormous amount of interior space otherwise lost and to regain it would simply cost you more in berthing fees, added weight and subsequent fuel costs.
Run aground or smack something hard with outdrives and it's a headache but chances are you'll either be able to carry on or maybe out of pocket a few k. Your boat doesnt end up with a gaping hole where the P bracket stove through sinking you.
Outdrives are more expensive to maintain but they are actually.... cheap. Yes. If it goes pop you can have another one on for a few k. I know more than several that cant quite say the same when their shaft systems went pop.
Outdrives supposedly give better handling and fuel economy. I'll let that one hang out for the jury to argue over.
Downside of out drives and space is engine access. The V40 exampled above is an exception. On outdrives the engine space is huge. Mine you have to strip the engines to the short block to do anything. On the V40 the interior space is less than on my 34 foot boat but it has a huge cockpit again thanks to it's engine bay placement. Side by side my 34 footer offers the same at a far cheaper package all round.
Horses for courses but when you see people just bashing outdrives without being given the full rationale it just perpetuates their ignorance if you accept it blindly.
Run aground or smack something hard with outdrives and it's a headache but chances are you'll either be able to carry on or maybe out of pocket a few k. Your boat doesnt end up with a gaping hole where the P bracket stove through sinking you.
Outdrives are more expensive to maintain but they are actually.... cheap. Yes. If it goes pop you can have another one on for a few k. I know more than several that cant quite say the same when their shaft systems went pop.
Outdrives supposedly give better handling and fuel economy. I'll let that one hang out for the jury to argue over.
Downside of out drives and space is engine access. The V40 exampled above is an exception. On outdrives the engine space is huge. Mine you have to strip the engines to the short block to do anything. On the V40 the interior space is less than on my 34 foot boat but it has a huge cockpit again thanks to it's engine bay placement. Side by side my 34 footer offers the same at a far cheaper package all round.
Horses for courses but when you see people just bashing outdrives without being given the full rationale it just perpetuates their ignorance if you accept it blindly.
JStordy
Member
Bruce - Thanks for your pov - i think the answer is just pick a boat i like - currently thinking an S42 on Volvo D6's!!!!!!!
BruceK
Well-known member
I think you should do just that. ? It's your boat, your choice.
JStordy
Member
damn thing is already under offer !!!!
BruceK
Well-known member
Have another look at the V40. If you are a couple that go out with the occasional guests that cockpit makes for a great social space. We have a V40 in our crowd on KAD44's and it invariably becomes the party boat. Has good sea manners and well built albeit not the quickest on outdrives it can maintain a respectable 22-24 knt cruise speed although limited a bit on range. Bonus is on outdrives the engine access is fantastic.
Portofino
Well-known member
I have had both and would not go back from straight shafts ....that includes jets and Arnesons btw .
If you are handy with spanner’s , like it , understand them , or prepared to learn then aged outdrives will suit you .
I draw the distinction between new with warranty and aged .
New ....not your immediate problem for two reasons .First the warranty and 2nd well they are new so less inclined to be knackered or cause a problem .
In the Med there’s a whole industry of white van men constantly pounding the pontoons every morning with supermarket trolleys full of spares for what they can fix afloat .Trim pumps , turbos , water pumps , belts ......+ much more .......!
Ashore the yards and engine sheds in those yards of approved agents are chock with boats with holes in the stern even bigger holes underneath where IPS pods lurk .
Sure you do see the odd shaft boat with drawn shafts , or props sent off .
With the modern older VP stuff you find a lot of electrotwackery necessitating a lap top guy , an expensive guy to reset and clear codes and interrogate the thing usually brought in after already paying white van man .
Depends really how handy you are with the spanner’s or want to be .
Its just the potential for down time is hugely greater with aged outdrives.
Not nice for any kids that are revved up to be told boating is off .
Its the certainty and predictability as you approach your boat on shafts it’s gonna work that I like .
You can,t really put a price on that or exchange mentally that for “ extra space “ or “ lower fuel bill “ for intended use if such a saving exists ?
If you are handy with spanner’s , like it , understand them , or prepared to learn then aged outdrives will suit you .
I draw the distinction between new with warranty and aged .
New ....not your immediate problem for two reasons .First the warranty and 2nd well they are new so less inclined to be knackered or cause a problem .
In the Med there’s a whole industry of white van men constantly pounding the pontoons every morning with supermarket trolleys full of spares for what they can fix afloat .Trim pumps , turbos , water pumps , belts ......+ much more .......!
Ashore the yards and engine sheds in those yards of approved agents are chock with boats with holes in the stern even bigger holes underneath where IPS pods lurk .
Sure you do see the odd shaft boat with drawn shafts , or props sent off .
With the modern older VP stuff you find a lot of electrotwackery necessitating a lap top guy , an expensive guy to reset and clear codes and interrogate the thing usually brought in after already paying white van man .
Depends really how handy you are with the spanner’s or want to be .
Its just the potential for down time is hugely greater with aged outdrives.
Not nice for any kids that are revved up to be told boating is off .
Its the certainty and predictability as you approach your boat on shafts it’s gonna work that I like .
You can,t really put a price on that or exchange mentally that for “ extra space “ or “ lower fuel bill “ for intended use if such a saving exists ?
JStordy
Member
Looking at this - S42 -
2 x Volvo Penta D6 - 350hp - with approx. 890hrs and great history
Out drive service in bellows, anodes and anti-fouling Feb 2020
Full engine service Dec 2019
It has a Z-out drive is that another problem??
2 x Volvo Penta D6 - 350hp - with approx. 890hrs and great history
Out drive service in bellows, anodes and anti-fouling Feb 2020
Full engine service Dec 2019
It has a Z-out drive is that another problem??
BruceK
Well-known member
Well that is not my experience. In my boating circles the only boat that's been incapacitated thanks to drive issues was actually a shaft driven boat. C'est la vie
Rocksteadee
Active member
Could buy my Fairline Turbo 36, just above half your budget but you can pay me 100k if you wish
