Lagoon 410 with broken bulkheads
- Thread starter geem
- Start date
TNLI
Active member
Great family, but I did not see any broken bulkheads or delamination. What we need is the surveyors report and actual pictures etc. It's normal for some designs of mono or multi hull yachts to flex, and I remember a copy of a real good American cutter that was made in Taiwan that went too far North during a crossing of the pond from Bermuda to the Azores. The interior had fallen apart, although the actual hull and rig were OK. About half of the internal glass used to attach the furniture to the hull had split. Serious warranty claim.
Rhylsailer99
Active member
I watched that yesterday, it will be interesting to see how it happened.
Rustyknight
Well-known member
Bilgediver
Well-known member
This was discussed here some weeks ago. It seems it is a known problem and Lagoon are dealing with it.
Check out below pages.
Lagoon 41 bulkead failure - Google Search
Just_sayin'
Well-known member
Lots of problems with the 450 main bulkhead.
The fix is a repair kit (if you’re lucky and meet the usage criteria) with just a one year warranty!
Lagoon Catamaran: sale, rental, catamaran and luxurious yacht construction
The fix is a repair kit (if you’re lucky and meet the usage criteria) with just a one year warranty!
Lagoon Catamaran: sale, rental, catamaran and luxurious yacht construction
vas
Well-known member
that looks like rather poor plywood is used. Assuming it is around 15-18mm 7 thick layers breaking like that doesn't look good.
Pretty sure 18mm marine ply has more (and thinner) layers.
all imho
Pretty sure 18mm marine ply has more (and thinner) layers.
all imho
TNLI
Active member
Strewth, this problem is a lot worse than I thought, also the repair kit is rubbish. What they need to do is provide a kit with real fiberglass or fiberlam panels, along with the glass cloth and 2 comp epoxy to install them. If it's all cut to shape including the tabling to attach the boards, it's not too long a job to install, unless its in a difficult area to acceess due to the need to remove more of the interior. I wonder if using a good 2 comp foam would work.
TNLI
Active member
This is the list of activities they are going to use to dodge paying for the repair:
*Examples of abnormal use (all examples are common sense and most can be found in the Owner’s Manual) :
• Sailing out of the Owner’s Manual sailing advice:
◦ Sailing with more sail area than allowed on the Owner’s Manual sailing advice
◦ Powering against sea and wind for a long time @30° off the true wind
◦ Sailing in very shallow waters to a point where waves could end up in occasional groundings
◦ Anchoring in very shallow waters to a point where waves could end up in occasional groundings
◦ Grounding
◦ Tightening the rig out of the mast manufacturer specification. Check the Dock Tune
◦ Improper haul out and storage (Owner’s Manual)
Umm, I seem to have done at least half of those points!
*Examples of abnormal use (all examples are common sense and most can be found in the Owner’s Manual) :
• Sailing out of the Owner’s Manual sailing advice:
◦ Sailing with more sail area than allowed on the Owner’s Manual sailing advice
◦ Powering against sea and wind for a long time @30° off the true wind
◦ Sailing in very shallow waters to a point where waves could end up in occasional groundings
◦ Anchoring in very shallow waters to a point where waves could end up in occasional groundings
◦ Grounding
◦ Tightening the rig out of the mast manufacturer specification. Check the Dock Tune
◦ Improper haul out and storage (Owner’s Manual)
Umm, I seem to have done at least half of those points!
RivalRedwing
Well-known member
the discussion in the liveaboard section referred to above is worth a look
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I can't believe how weedy the bulkheads are in Lagoon cats. The 450 weighs 15 tonnes and seems to have some low quality 1/2" plywood for bulkheads. The main bulkhead on my former Dragonfly trimaran, a boat that weighs 2 tonnes, was 50mm thick.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
This is just Lagoon squealing 'not our fault' as a presage to the inevitable class action lawsuit that's coming. Not 'Powering against sea and wind for a long time @30° off the true wind'. Really? Are they selling ocean going sailing boats, or canal houseboats? Has there ever been that restriction applied to any other kind of boat (it didn't seem to do my Dragonfly any harm)? Do they seriously expect that usage restriction to stand up in court?
The cost of proper recompense or repairs (not their half baked fix for boats where the bulkheads haven't broken yet) for the failed 450's is enough to put the future of the company in doubt, let alone the sales hit from a complete loss of confidence in the brand. If it's other models as well, they are done for. I hope they are set up as financially independent of their parent company Beneteau. There's going to be trouble ahead.
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TNLI
Active member
Wild guess, but the type of repair involved would cost around 10K. It's delamination of the hull that can be far more serious and even Boston Whaler when they experimented with a 31ft sports fishing boat had to write one off for serious delamination. BW are a good company so they did not argue that the boat had been subject to abuse, or extreme sea conditions, which it had. They just sent out a surveyor at their cost and paid in full. I was using that nice boat, but noticed the fridge was hitting the inside of the hull in bumpy conditions. Once we were back in the marina, I called the owner to take a look, and he then did a mental act on the phone to the UK dealerr in Poole. That's was not needed as they would have paid to make sure their reputation did not take a knock.
As far Lagoon going bust, their reputation for not fixing faults could well sink them in the financial sense, or cause them to accept a low take over offer.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
If the bulkheads haven't failed and just need strengthening, maybe, but where they have already failed, it's about $100k for a proper fix, because the damage is not limited to the failed bulkheads. The whole boat starts bending. You can see videos where the sliding windows in the saloon rear wall don't slide any more because the frames are out of square.
Have you seen the YouTube channels where they fix broken bulkheads - Parley Revival and the other boat next to them in Panama? It's major surgery requiring removal and replacement of a large part of the interior furniture and panelling then careful jacking to straighten the hull. Lagoon build the interior woodwork external to the boat then drop it into each hull as one piece, before the deck goes on. This means that all the fasteners are on the hull side of the woodwork and are inaccessible. The woodwork has to be largely chopped apart to remove it, not only to get access to the failed bulkheads, but also to the tabbing all along the hull that separates when the bulkheads fail - that's where Lagoon installed tabbing in the first place rather than magic putty to save some money, as is their wont.
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vyv_cox
Well-known member
My friend Bob who was the technical man at Leros Marina told me of countless construction problems with Lagoon cats. They seem to be very lightly built.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
Lagoon seem to have mastered the combination of a lightly built boat that at the same time is grossly overweight. A 45' cat that is pushing 16 tonnes dry weight - strewth, no surprise that they sail like a salad dodging Catalac.
The Outremer 45 weighs 8.7 tonnes, Fontaine Pajot Elba 45 10.8 tonnes, Broadblue Rapier 550 9.5 tonnes, Dragonfly 40 4.8 tonnes.
Boathook
Well-known member
Leave Catalacs out of it. Mine likes salad and is always trying to loose weight !
Kelpie
Well-known member
Friends of ours have a 15t cat... but it's 72ft long!
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Catalacs aren‘t badly built nor have pretensions to grandeur, or performance. Their owners know what they bought. The onboard space/cost ratio cannot be beaten. And the bulkheads don’t fall to bits.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I know, I agree with all of that. There's nothing wrong with heavier low performance spacious cats. There's a niche in the market for them. It's what buyers of Lagoons expect too. However, they don't expect flimsy bulkheads hidden behind some pretty panelling to crumple at first contact with the ocean, and Lagoon to turn round and say not our fault because you dried it out on a beach or motored into a head sea at the wrong angle for too long.
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