Lagoon 410 with broken bulkheads
- Thread starter geem
- Start date
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
All that lagoon creaking on that video would drive me nuts @sea.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Are they not just a floating drink cabinate?
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Is this comment aimed at charter boats in the Caribbean? Customer pays for a one-way downwind charter; delivery crew return the boat upwind to its base. You often see them motoring hard upwind against 25 knot winds and sizeable seas, bouncing and banging like ****@@@**.
geem
Well-Known Member
You can't pay for a one way down wind charter in the Caribbean. Winds blow from the East but it varies from NE to SE. Currents between the island run hard pushing you West. The island chain runs North South but with a slight reverse C shape. So, heading North could mean slightly NE if you are in The Grenadines heading for Martinique. Combine this with a NE wind and some West current between the island and now you have a hard beat to windward maybe in 25kts. Liveaboards will just wait for wind to be East or SE but charter boats on a 2 week holiday turn the motor on and bash to weather.
In Antigua we see the new charter intake arrive in Green island having picked up their boat in Jolly Harbour or English Harbour. It's only an 8 or 13 nm bash to weather but typically in a 2 metre Atlantic swell right on the nose. Those cats look like a bucking bronco taking on those waves. Often seeing their keels as they come well clear of the water. The charterer with no mechanical sympathy just runs full chat in a boat he doesn't own. Not a boat you would ever want to buy out of the charter fleet
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Lagoon have a point then, there are kinder ways to treat a yacht. However, it shouldn’t break them.
geem
Well-Known Member
What point do they have? If the Lagoon can't do what all other boats can do people should be aware that they aren't suitable for ocean sailing.
The Caribbean can be a pretty narly place to sail at times. Are we to assume that Lagoons are not suitable for the Caribbean?
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AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of other makes of cats used in the Caribbean charter market that are used the same way, but they don't break.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Are we saying that? I thought we pretty much were?
geem
Well-Known Member
I think we are?
Stemar
Well-Known Member
I'm not an ocean crosser, but I can't imagine a boat sold as blue water capable not being able to take as much hammering as any non-racing crew could throw at it outside survival conditions.
Not sure one would have been my first choice anyway, but they're definitely off my lottery win list now. Take that, Lagoon!
Not sure one would have been my first choice anyway, but they're definitely off my lottery win list now. Take that, Lagoon!
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure I could sail to windward in my Dragonfly in those conditions. 25kn is not that much, I might well not have a second reef in the main. And that’s a 2 ton racer/cruiser, not a blue water boat at all. And I wouldn’t be expecting her to show any sign of strain afterwards
geem
Well-Known Member
Yep, we sail in them regularly in our monohull but like a say, we are liveaboards o we can pick our weather . It doesn't always work out though. Forecasts are just forecasts. We have done it with a nice forecast 15kts behind the beam but experienced winds forward of the beam gusting over 40kts. The acceleration zones between the islands can be quite noticeable. Also known as exhilaration zones?
TNLI
Well-Known Member
In the legal sense the list the manfacturer has published, means this cat is not fit for purpose, so they should offer a full refund in the first year, then you will need to prove the damage and limitations justify a full refund. That's not going to be easy, but can be done, that's why I can't understand them publising a set of restrictions, as it seems to be a shot in their own foot in the legal sense.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Won't that depend on the law / consumer protection law of the country it was purchased in.
TNLI
Well-Known Member
Yes to some extent a w
The first action would be against the dealer who sold the boat, BUT if that fails you can try an action against the manufacturer in the country where they are registered. Also getting a group of miffed owners together and then going to the press to see if they will publish your story can produce good results.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Of course that would apply to a boat sold in the UK but does such law exist in other countries? it exists in France
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The Consumer Rights Act is based on the EU directive on consumer protection, although of course much of its provisions previously existed in the SOGA in the UK and similar legislation in other European states. What the EU Directive did, though was establish (as in post#36) the prime responsibility with the trader who sold the product to the consumer rather than the maker or any other intermediary. it also established specific stages related to time and the type of failure with an absolute limit of 6 years.
As with all EU Directives it passes the onus for operationalising to each state to bring their laws and processes in line with the directive. This off course means hugely variable processes for taking action from state to state. The reality is that many retailers such as boat dealers are simply not geared up to handle this type of claim either technically or financially and are reliant on the original manufacturer to provide support. Once you get past one year then the onus is on the complainant to show that the fault was there right from the beginning and that the buyer has given the supplier every opportunity to make good the defects.
Actually taking legal action is a real challenge in these situations - a buyer, say having a contract with a dealer in Germany for a boat built in France to be used in the Caribbean has a defect. He has to take action against the dealer in Germany who does not have access to the boat, nor the technical resources to deal with it, and as we have seen the proposed remedial action is determined by the builder in France. Anybody who has followed similar cases involving boats will know how difficult it is as you get bogged down with buck passing and a legal system that is not user friendly. Not too bad if the money involved is small and the state where the claim is made has a small claims track as in the UK, but big claims like these related to the Lagoon rarely get anywhere near the courts because of the cost.
Best owners can hope for is there being enough boats and high enough claim values to justify a class action against the builder, bypassing consumer law.
wully1
Well-Known Member
Nahoa was bought second hand somewhere in the Caribbean as far as I recall? I doubt they have any chance of financial recourse with Lagoon.
