Cloud 5
Member
Interesting can i ask what the ( igic ) vat rate in Canaries , against EU rate
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EU Travel post Brexit
- Thread starter Graham376
- Start date
nortada
Well-known member
Not in the Covid lockdown situation.
Ningaloo
Well-known member
I think YOU need to re-read the statements and your examples. The two statements are NOT contradictory. I and others have attempted to explain why...
I don't understand how you think that a 14 day exit suddenly warps time and changes 104 days (90+14) into 180!
These rules are not new and have applied to non EU/Schengen countries for many years. Although some individual EU countries may offer 180 day visas to some nationalities (I believe France offers this to Australian citizens) such a visa is restricted to the issuing country and does provide an exemption to the general 90 day rule for the other countries within Schengen. Similarly gaining residence in a Schengen country allows you to stay in that one country only.
Graham376
Well-known member
From what we hear so far, UK citizens won't need a visa so extension doesn't apply. Whether we will be able to apply for longer stays remains to be seen.
For those with residence, we will have unlimited time in country of residence which doesn't count towards time spent in Schengen.
Ningaloo
Well-known member
Whilst we may not need a visa in advance (does anyone know if the EU has legislated to permit this already or is it part of current discussions?) we will need an entry permit / passport stamp issued on arrival. This is one of the reasons that we will no longer be able to sail direct to St Vaast (or other smaller ports) but will need to check in at one of the ports of entry first.
For me the difference between a visa and entry permit is semantics. I'd prefer to have to get a visa that allowed me to enter anywhere. Or at least the option of applying for a 180 day visa.
I understand that the EU has offered 180 day stays if reciprocated by UK. Boris has turned this (and so many other) friendly offer down.
For me the difference between a visa and entry permit is semantics. I'd prefer to have to get a visa that allowed me to enter anywhere. Or at least the option of applying for a 180 day visa.
I understand that the EU has offered 180 day stays if reciprocated by UK. Boris has turned this (and so many other) friendly offer down.
newtothis
Well-known member
I wonder if I'll be able to do 90 days on my UK passport, pop out of Schengen for a day, then go back in for another 90 on my NZ passport. That ought to give me full time access for all but four days of the year 
Ningaloo
Well-known member
I could do the same, but as I exit Australia on my Australian passport and enter UK/EU on my British passport I'm sure that Big Brother knows they belong to the same person.
Might be worth asking an EU visa office though.
Might be worth asking an EU visa office though.
Graham376
Well-known member
Can you provide a link? My understanding is that UK offered EU citizens 6 months but they haven't reciprocated.
Koeketiene
Well-known member
Some useful info here: Countries UK Citizens Can Visit Visa-Free
I fear ETIAS will scupper some of the 'I will leave for a day ... ' schemes.
I fear ETIAS will scupper some of the 'I will leave for a day ... ' schemes.
Ningaloo
Well-known member
Looks like you are correct and I've been reading fake news!
All I have found suggests that UK routinely offers stays of up to 6 months. Nothing specific to Brexit/EU.
Also confirmed that EU has passed legislation to allow visa waiver to UK citizens on condition that this is reciprocated.
syvictoria
Well-known member
The CA stated in a press release (Thursday, 4th June 2020):
"At present, the UK is offering EU citizens visa free travel for six months out of twelve. The EU is offering only 90 days in 180, the standard Schengen arrangement. This would be an unwelcome restriction to cruising in EU countries. The UK government, having previously indicated they would seek parity, are now saying that they don't expect the EU to offer more and that they don't intend to make this part of the negotiations." (my bold)
It is the previous indication that they would seek parity that is, I think, being (accidentally) misconstrued as a change/rejection on the part of the government, maybe?
"At present, the UK is offering EU citizens visa free travel for six months out of twelve. The EU is offering only 90 days in 180, the standard Schengen arrangement. This would be an unwelcome restriction to cruising in EU countries. The UK government, having previously indicated they would seek parity, are now saying that they don't expect the EU to offer more and that they don't intend to make this part of the negotiations." (my bold)
It is the previous indication that they would seek parity that is, I think, being (accidentally) misconstrued as a change/rejection on the part of the government, maybe?
Graham376
Well-known member
There's a lot of it about, particularly in the lounge where some idiots can't refrain from bringing personal political views into discussions with distorted reporting. I try to get to the source of reports and even looking at uk.gov and EU sites find conflicting information. Anyway, what the hell, everything we read now may well change by 31st December
greeny
Well-known member
Apologies but I missed your post on Monday. Please read the post and subsequent ones and you will see that my example IS possible using the 90 in 180 rolling system if 14 days of your occupancy were the first 14 days of the 180.
I am not interested in what you think or say, I can read and can understand what it means. AND IT IS CONTRADICTORY. There, you've got me shouting now.
I'd better go sailing
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syvictoria
Well-known member
The second statement (in isolation as above - I haven't read the wider context) will result in a different outcome depending upon the distribution of the 90 days within the last 180. It isn't necessary to take the 90 days in one lump. The rule is, count bank 180 days and if you have been in the Schengen for 90 days, you can't come back in (without an additional visa, etc.).
Imagine that you visited for 30 days, left for 60 days, came back for a further 60 and then left again for 30 days. That would be 90 out of 180 days. The very next day, the rolling nature of the rule would mean that your first stay (for the purpose of the calculation - i.e.: within the 180 day window) was now only 29 days, and hence 89/180 and so you could now come back into Schengen for 1 day.
If the distribution of previous visits was reversed, so 30 days absent, 60 in, 60 out and 30 in, then the rolling forward would remove one day when you were out of the Schengen and it wouldn't therefore create any further allowance. You would still already have spent 90 in the last 180 days. You would need to wait for the 180 day window to roll forward 30 days you would start to gain further allowance to return.
Not very succinct, but correct I hope!?
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nortada
Well-known member
The second statement (in isolation as above - I haven't read the wider context) will result in a different outcome depending upon the distribution of the 90 days within the last 180. It isn't necessary to take the 90 days in one lump. The rule is, count bank 180 days and if you have been in the Schengen for 90 days, you can't come back in (without an additional visa, etc.).
Unless you have as second passport, I am not sure an additional visa will get around the 90/180 day Schengen Rule. Additionally, you would have to leave the Schengen Zone on or before the end of the first 80 day period; otherwise your would have be seen to have broken the 90/180 day rule so not be let back in. As most of us have only one passport, all a bit academic.
Imagine that you visited for 30 days, left for 60 days, came back for a further 60 and then left again for 30 days. That would be 90 out of 180 days. The very next day, the rolling nature of the rule would mean that your first stay (for the purpose of the calculation - i.e.: within the 180 day window) was now only 29 days, and hence 89/180 and so you could now come back into Schengen for 1 day.
Agree✔
If the distribution of previous visits was reversed, so 30 days absent, 60 in, 60 out and 30 in (90 days in 150 days), then the rolling forward would remove one day when you were out of the Schengen and it wouldn't therefore create any further allowance.✔ You would still already have spent 90 in the last 180 days. (
90 days in 150 days) You would need to wait for the 180 day window to roll forward 30 days you would start to gain further allowance to return.
90 days in 150 days so you wouldn't be able to return for at least 30 days, when you would start to amortize your first 60 days.
As the clock only starts when you first arrive in Schengenland, your first 30 days are not part of the calculation.
MY BRAIN HURTS - RESIDENCIA IS THE ANSWER< WHATEVER THE QUESTION.
Unless you have as second passport, I am not sure an additional visa will get around the 90/180 day Schengen Rule. Additionally, you would have to leave the Schengen Zone on or before the end of the first 80 day period; otherwise your would have be seen to have broken the 90/180 day rule so not be let back in. As most of us have only one passport, all a bit academic.
Imagine that you visited for 30 days, left for 60 days, came back for a further 60 and then left again for 30 days. That would be 90 out of 180 days. The very next day, the rolling nature of the rule would mean that your first stay (for the purpose of the calculation - i.e.: within the 180 day window) was now only 29 days, and hence 89/180 and so you could now come back into Schengen for 1 day.
Agree✔
If the distribution of previous visits was reversed, so 30 days absent, 60 in, 60 out and 30 in (90 days in 150 days), then the rolling forward would remove one day when you were out of the Schengen and it wouldn't therefore create any further allowance.✔ You would still already have spent 90 in the last 180 days. (
90 days in 150 days) You would need to wait for the 180 day window to roll forward 30 days you would start to gain further allowance to return. 90 days in 150 days so you wouldn't be able to return for at least 30 days, when you would start to amortize your first 60 days.
As the clock only starts when you first arrive in Schengenland, your first 30 days are not part of the calculation.
MY BRAIN HURTS - RESIDENCIA IS THE ANSWER< WHATEVER THE QUESTION.
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newtothis
Well-known member
I'm still wondering if I'm going to be able to sail in say, Portugal for three months on my UK passport, check out, then pop around the corner to Spain and check in again on my NZ passport for another 90 days. That would get me the six month sailing season it used to be my God-given right to until some twit painted a bus.
nortada
Well-known member
Only one way to find out??
I can sail in Portugal for 3 months or as long as I like, then pop around the corner to Spain and sail for 3 months on the same UK passport, then return to my host country, Portugal for as long as I like. This gives me an unlimited sailing season.?
Maybe EU permitted but not so sure, yours was a God-given right.?
Pity you had to introduce an irrelevant political bias it to your message. Wrong place.
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Ningaloo
Well-known member
I agree with that if 14 days in EU were the the first of the180 day window. But your example was 90 days in EU then 14 days out. You still have to wait a further 76 days so that days start to drop out if the 180 day window.Apologies but I missed your post on Monday. Please read the post and subsequent ones and you will see that my example IS possible using the 90 in 180 rolling system if 14 days of your occupancy were the first 14 days of the 180.
I am not interested in what you think or say, I can read and can understand what it means. AND IT IS CONTRADICTORY. There, you've got me shouting now.
I'd better go sailing
It's really not complicated and the two statements you quoted are not contradictory.
newtothis
Well-known member
Pity you had to introduce an irrelevant political bias it to your message. Wrong place.
This is a discussion about the limitations brought on sailors by a political decision in which a lie on a bus played quite a memorable part. Until then, I could sail when and where I wanted in Europe. Them's just facts.
25931
Well-known member
A Portuguese I.D. card is even more convenient.