EU Travel post Brexit

[Mistroma]

as turkey is so close you could alternate so not really an issue there

Not certain how well that would work in Greece. Do you hand over your passport when arriving in the country or every time you arrive at a new port? You would have to depart from the same place you booked into Greece and handed over your passport. Not happy to leave my passport with the PP in Greece. What do you do if stopped and asked to produce your passport? I guess they could provide a document to show where your passport was being held.

Sorry, I wasn't talking about switching back and forth between Greece and Turkey. Not certain how that relates to my response to your post.

I was saying that the logistics of handing in your passport in Greece would be a bit difficult to operate. I wouldn't be very happy to hand my passport to PP in Greece and then proceed to sail around without my passport as PP were holding it. I wondered if I had understood the suggestion correctly.

 

[atol]

i guess the faro anchorage and the boat yard there is going to get a whole lot busier as an enclave for british non-cruising and livabord yachts!
not much help if you cruise out of the uk during the summer months from the SW to france ,northern spain ,azores and portugal etc

 

[Graham376]

I very much doubt the EU gives a flying fig about losing business from cruising yachts - Most seem to be in a very tight budget so it must be a minuscule income stream nationally, even if it might hurt a few businesses in the crossroads destinations.

Not just cruising boats, also camper vans and to a minor extent, backpackers. Lots of Brits out and about in Europe >3 months.

 

[GeorgeTina]

After reading the above posts I am still unclear as to how the "rolling" 90 in 180 days works. If i Travel to (say) Italy for April to June (90days ). When is the first date I can return ?. If I travel to France for one day in January does that start the rolling 180 days ? and thus another rolling 180 days starts at the beginning of July ?. Sorry if this has been made clear somewhere else.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

After reading the above posts I am still unclear as to how the "rolling" 90 in 180 days works. If i Travel to (say) Italy for April to June (90days ). When is the first date I can return ?. If I travel to France for one day in January does that start the rolling 180 days ? and thus another rolling 180 days starts at the beginning of July ?. Sorry if this has been made clear somewhere else.

"The date of entry shall be considered as the first day of stay on the territory of the Member States and the date of exit shall be considered as the last day of stay on the territory of the Member States. Periods of stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa shall not be taken into account in the calculation of the duration of stay on the territory of the Member States." ....

.....Stays in Bulgaria, Croatia, Ireland, Romania, Cyprus and the United Kingdom shall not be taken into account as they are not (yet) part of the Schengen area without internal borders. At the same time, the non-EU Member States Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland belong to the Schengen area; short stays in these countries count in when assessing the compliance with the 90 days / 180-day rule.

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vi...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

Calculator here.

Schengen-calculator

Basically, looking back over the last 180 days, you may not exceed 90 days in the Schengen states. Germany, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland have all acceded to the Schengen Agreement and are thus Schengen states.

Exception is if you have a residence permit for one of the states, in which case, days in that state don't count towards the 90 days.

 

[nortada]

Well explained.

Makes the case why it could be very useful to have residency in a Schengen Zone country before the end of the Transition Period.

Border controls and freedom of movement during the pandemic lock downs have reinforced the case for residency. (ie in some, but not all cases, folk have been allowed to transit between their home country and country of residence through third party countries).

 

[newtothis]

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/vi...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

Calculator here.

Schengen-calculator

Basically, looking back over the last 180 days, you may not exceed 90 days in the Schengen states. Germany, Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland have all acceded to the Schengen Agreement and are thus Schengen states.

Exception is if you have a residence permit for one of the states, in which case, days in that state don't count towards the 90 days.

So no return for three months before next 180 days kicks in? No checking out and coming back in for the rest of the summer the next week.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

So no return for three months before next 180 days kicks in? No checking out and coming back in for the rest of the summer the next week.

Correct. ... the 180 days is not really a period that can be "reset", it's the last 180 days, calculated retrospectively from today, so as time advances and a day from a previous visit drops out of the retrospective 180 day window, so another can be added, as long as you never have over 90 days in the Schengen area in your retrospective 180 window then you`re OK.

Here is another site which explains it quite well too.

How the "Schengen Zone" affects your visa application — DreamPrague

 

[greeny]

Generally a good description of the rules and I'm sure they mean well but they can confuse people with their contradictions.
First statement says, quote "After your 90-days in the Schengen zone have finished, you have to leave, and you cannot return until 90 days after that. Basically 3 months on, 3 months off. " OK I've got that - simple.
Then a few lines further down:- Quote : "but if you count back to a 180 day period, you can only be in the Schengen Zone for a total of 90 of those days. " - this means that if you're in Schengen for 90 days and leave for example for 14 days, you are then entitled to come back for 14 days to "top back up" to the 90 days limit. OK I understand that too.
But which one is the rule?

 

[Graham376]

Generally a good description of the rules and I'm sure they mean well but they can confuse people with their contradictions.
First statement says, quote "After your 90-days in the Schengen zone have finished, you have to leave, and you cannot return until 90 days after that. Basically 3 months on, 3 months off. " OK I've got that - simple.
Then a few lines further down:- Quote : "but if you count back to a 180 day period, you can only be in the Schengen Zone for a total of 90 of those days. " - this means that if you're in Schengen for 90 days and leave for example for 14 days, you are then entitled to come back for 14 days to "top back up" to the 90 days limit. OK I understand that too.
But which one is the rule?

Maybe they're both just examples of how the rules can be applied? If you want another full 90 days, then you have to leave for 90 but, if you need to come back sooner then you can but for limited period.

 

[atol]

Generally a good description of the rules and I'm sure they mean well but they can confuse people with their contradictions.
First statement says, quote "After your 90-days in the Schengen zone have finished, you have to leave, and you cannot return until 90 days after that. Basically 3 months on, 3 months off. " OK I've got that - simple.
Then a few lines further down:- Quote : "but if you count back to a 180 day period, you can only be in the Schengen Zone for a total of 90 of those days. " - this means that if you're in Schengen for 90 days and leave for example for 14 days, you are then entitled to come back for 14 days to "top back up" to the 90 days limit. OK I understand that too.
But which one is the rule?

yes this is very annoying,as just about every other country in the world that we need visas for will issue a 3 month visa,then extend it for a further 3 months,after which you need to leave the country and reapply.
since the medittereanean and atlantic coasts of europe are all shengen countries yachts transiting slowly would need to break their trips,by either flying out for 90 days or hop over to north africa for 90 days.

residency in an eu country i guess is an option ,but this might also be impractical if you are not "actually "resident in the country and off cruising 6 months out of 12 and not returning for the winter to the eu country of residence.

for us based in the uk,and cruising the NW atlantic coasts 6 months,then returning with the boat that we live on year round to the uk to work over winter, the logistics have become more difficult.

 

[NOHOH]

The logistics are impossible.......that`s why anyone with any sense did not vote for Brexit. There is one issue that we might pursue though...probably through your MP.....Members of the EU are allowed to visit the UK for up to 6 months in any year (well that`s my understanding, doubtless someone who knows better will soon be along)...so why can`t we ask for/insist on a reciprocal arrangement?

 

[nortada]

The logistics are impossible.......that`s why anyone with any sense did not vote for Brexit. There is one issue that we might pursue though...probably through your MP.....Members of the EU are allowed to visit the UK for up to 6 months in any year (well that`s my understanding, doubtless someone who knows better will soon be along)...so why can`t we ask for/insist on a reciprocal arrangement?

I suspect that most people who voted for Brexit were not interested in the plight of us yotties. Ninty days in, in any 180 day period will meet most Brits' needs.

Post the TP, I don't think you will be able to insist on any thing.

 

[atol]

I suspect that most people who voted for Brexit were not interested in thye plight of yotties. Ninty days in, in any 180 day period will meet most Brits' needs.

Post the TP, I don't think you will be able to insist on any thing.

too true there will probably be a lot of anti UK sentiment out there for a long time to come specially if there are major economic problems world wide.

i can remember german registered cars still getting vandalised as late as the 70's in europe and that was 30 years after the war!

might just have to stick to the UK/ caribean /atlantic circuit for a few years,which might have some benefits if the islands can remain covid free

 

[nortada]

yes this is very annoying,as just about every other country in the world that we need visas for will issue a 3 month visa,then extend it for a further 3 months,after which you need to leave the country and reapply.

since the medittereanean and atlantic coasts of europe are all shengen countries yachts transiting slowly would need to break their trips,by either flying out for 90 days or hop over to north africa for 90 days.

residency in an eu country i guess is an option ,but this might also be impractical if you are not "actually "resident in the country and off cruising 6 months out of 12 and not returning for the winter to the eu country of residence.

for us based in the uk,and cruising the NW atlantic coasts 6 months,then returning with the boat that we live on year round to the uk to work over winter, the logistics have become more difficult.

Before the end of the TP, with a bit of careful planning, getting residency is still possible and for your scenario, 6 months in the UK and 6 months in the Schengen Zone (3 in your county of residence and 3 months in any other Schengen country) could work well.

For you, residency in France or Spain would be the obvious choices. You could then trundle over to the Schengen Zone, spend as long as you like in your country of residence and then up to 90 days in any other Schengen Zone country before returning to the UK for the winter but not sure how easy it would be for somebody in your situation to get French or Spanish residency. Portugal would be another option but that could necessitate many more sea miles your summer cruise. (UK - France/Spain (a month or so in the Schengen Zone) - Portugal (as long as you like). Then use the balance of Schengen 90 days to return through Spain/France to The UK)

Another option, would be residency in more than one Schengen Zone county. I met a Brit who has, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Greek residencies - a much travelled single hander, who I last heard of was in Italy! Bit OTT ?

If you want information on Portuguese residencia, please PM me.

 

[greeny]

yes this is very annoying,as just about every other country in the world that we need visas for will issue a 3 month visa,then extend it for a further 3 months,after which you need to leave the country and reapply.
since the medittereanean and atlantic coasts of europe are all shengen countries yachts transiting slowly would need to break their trips,by either flying out for 90 days or hop over to north africa for 90 days.

residency in an eu country i guess is an option ,but this might also be impractical if you are not "actually "resident in the country and off cruising 6 months out of 12 and not returning for the winter to the eu country of residence.

for us based in the uk,and cruising the NW atlantic coasts 6 months,then returning with the boat that we live on year round to the uk to work over winter, the logistics have become more difficult.

I may be wrong but you should be able to apply for an extension of the 90 days as you say other countries will do for you.
Canadian friend of mine who was here in Portugal for 90 days, applied for and got an extension of a further 90 days to make the total stay 180 days.
I'm afraid I don't know the details but she did have to go up to Lisbon about it but it she seemed to get it without too much trouble. I'm not in touch with her anymore or I would ask for you.
The point I am making about the article referenced is that it quotes 2 completely different interpretations of the same 90 day rule.

First statement says, quote "After your 90-days in the Schengen zone have finished, you have to leave, and you cannot return until 90 days after that. Basically 3 months on, 3 months off. "
OK I've got that - simple. Or I thought i had!
But then a few lines further down:- Quote : "but if you count back to a 180 day period, you can only be in the Schengen Zone for a total of 90 of those days. " - this means that if you're in Schengen for 90 days and leave for example for 14 days, you are then entitled to come back for 14 days to "top back up" to the 90 days limit.
OK I understand that too.
But which one is the real rule? Two different interpretations in one article. What chance do we have of understanding it.
Does anyone know what the correct answer is.

 

[greeny]

Maybe they're both just examples of how the rules can be applied? If you want another full 90 days, then you have to leave for 90 but, if you need to come back sooner then you can but for limited period.

Maybe, but that's not what they said.

 

[Beneteau381]

The logistics are impossible.......that`s why anyone with any sense did not vote for Brexit. There is one issue that we might pursue though...probably through your MP.....Members of the EU are allowed to visit the UK for up to 6 months in any year (well that`s my understanding, doubtless someone who knows better will soon be along)...so why can`t we ask for/insist on a reciprocal arrangement?

bit of nastiness there! "that`s why anyone with any sense did not vote for Brexit." suggest you take it to the other forum?

 

[nortada]

Currently not experiencing anti Brit sentiment from the man-in-the-street.

As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. The general view appears to be, blame the politicians - I can go with that?

 

[LittleSister]

But then a few lines further down:- Quote : "but if you count back to a 180 day period, you can only be in the Schengen Zone for a total of 90 of those days. " - this means that if you're in Schengen for 90 days and leave for example for 14 days, you are then entitled to come back for 14 days to "top back up" to the 90 days limit.

I don't read it as meaning what you say it does at all. If you've been in Shengen for 90 days, then leave, 14 days later you've still been in Shengen for the max 90 days in the last 180, so can't (legitimately) re-enter.

The calculation seems straightforward to me: on any particular day, have you been in Schengen for 90 days in the last 180? No, then you can stay (or re-visit) longer; if yes, then you must leave (and/or stay out) until that is no longer the case.

Which is what it says both times -
1) quote "After your 90-days in the Schengen zone have finished, you have to leave, and you cannot return until 90 days after that. Basically 3 months on, 3 months off. "
2) Quote : "but if you count back to a 180 day period, you can only be in the Schengen Zone for a total of 90 of those days.