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End of life boats - a new proposal from International Council of Marine Industry Associations

Concerto

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The International Council of Marine Industry Associations is proposing that disposal of end of life boats should not just be an owner problem. In the EU there are estimated to be 6 million boats under 24 metres and about 80,000 reach the end of their life every year. Only about 2,000 are dismantled for recycling. Part of the proposals are for swift removal of these boats as abandoned boats are bad for the industry. Removal of these boats will help create demand for new boats as people move to newer boats over the whole secondhand market. The knock on will also be less conjested boatyards and berths.

End-of-Life boat disposal is not purely an owner problem says ICOMIA
 

prv

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I didn’t notice any actual solutions proposed there, just restating that the obvious problem - regularly discussed here - is indeed a problem.

Pete
 

ryanroberts

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ICOMIA says it is increasingly interested in:

  • Swift removal of EoL boats. Abandoned boats have the potential to damage the industry. Removing products at the bottom of the market will ensure demand for new boats.
This an amazingly bad point while also sprinkling in environmentalist language. The best 'sustainable' disposal programme for old GRP boats is to find sufficient nutters to do them up, or heavily penalise new builds vs refurbishment.

1589925700924.png

Is a provocative picture for what is an enforcement / navigation authority issue.
 
Last edited:

Keith 66

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There isnt anything new there. All very well getting rid of old boats so new ones can be sold but boats are not cars they are largely unrecyclable therefore disposal costs. Who is going to pay for it?
Every boatyard & yachtclub in the land has the same problem, people leave or die & all of a sudden nobody wants to take responsibility for their old boat.
 

DownWest

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At the local boat show in La Rochelle, there was a stand for a recycling company that ground up GRP boats for use in roadbuilding. Seem to recall that they were hoping for a Gov grant as it was not economic. Maybe a levy on builders? If they thought it would help new sales they might go for it. 80,000 does sound a lot to be recycled.
 

Stemar

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I am all for the removal of rotting hulks that litter every creek and boatyard known to man.
I can't imagine many being against that. The only difficulty is how, and who's to pay? It's very tempting to make the manufacturer responsible for final disposal, but how many manufacturers will be around when their boats reach the end, 30, 40 or more years down the line? And how do you make Delphia, based in Poland, deal with a boat in Britain? Make the importer responsible? There's even less likelihood of them being around. Oh, we've got a bill for 100 dead boats, that'll eat up our bonuses for the year. So Peters Boat Sales goes bust and Peterson Boat Sales starts up with the same staff and premises, but no responsibility.
 

Concerto

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Something must be done as the problem of even more boats being built without disposing of the old ones is just not sustainable. Many of our boatyards, rivers, creeks and backwaters are becoming littered with old unwanted boats. This problem is only going to get substantially worse with time. Back in the 1960's old boats were made of wood and either rotted away or were burnt. GRP is such a different material with little potential recycling use. We are all part of the problem in that we have bought boats, either new or secondhand, without a thought about what will happen to them at the end of their life. Unless the marine industry and boaters accept some joint responsibility for a continual clear up, governments might slap charges on us all. This might be a tax on new boats, a user licence, a harbour authority tax, a mooring tax, or something else. All of these sound very unwelcome to us and may bring along increased regulations for all boaters but someone will ultimately have to pay for the destruction of these boats. The longer we ignore the problem, the more expensive it will become to solve.
 

duncan99210

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This is not only a problem for the owners or the boat building industry to solve. It needs a government policy to drive it and probably to at least pay for some of it. The materials used in boat building are so long lived that they are difficult, if not impossible, to recycle.
The metallic elements can be relatively easily removed and recycled: there’s already a thriving market for most metals. Wooden parts can be either burnt or composted. It’s the grp that not only forms the bulk of the boat but it’s also effectively only fit for landfill and that only when it’s been cut into small enough pieces. And it costs to send it to landfill: not just the cost of reducing it to small bits and transport but the landfill tax has to be paid. All of which is usually a cost beyond that which the yard where the boat has been abandoned is prepared to pay.
I can’t see how to square the circle without either government support or some fairly heavy handed legislation.
 

Refueler

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Ant tax or increased levy will never go towards solving the problem. Like all taxes - they get eaten up in the general mess and do not get to the intended.

Personally I think in terms of unwanted / discarded boats - the rules about disposal - ie sale of - by the yard or location site owner needs to be revised. So that after a reasonable period - the boats can be sold as 'hulks' before they get to the terrible state often seen.
I am sure there are plenty people out there that would be willing to part fair price for a 'hulk' that is still redeemable ...

I know it does not solve the problem - but it could help.
 

Keith 66

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People will not pay for a redeemable "hulk" already, they are completely uneconomic to restore, This is why there are so many in the first place!
I should know I have rebuilt two elderly grp yachts & in no way was it viable except as a labour of love. Add in that i was in the trade since i left school so was able to do all the work myself.
Its all very well putting disposal surcharge on new boats but it adds another cost onto the price.
Clubs, yards or Harbour authorities could start demanding a "disposal bond" if you like, where the only way your boat would be allowed on site is if you pay a disposal charge up front, returnable if you & the boat left in good order. If you die or disapear the Club or whoever has the money to scrap the boat.
Ultimately though i hate to say it the only fair way is a universal licencing scheme for everyone.
 

Motor_Sailor

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I am sure there are plenty people out there that would be willing to part fair price for a 'hulk' that is still redeemable ...
I don't think so. Yards are full of boats that could be had for peanuts. Then what? In the UK land is expensive and for most people they have to pay to use a bit of someone else's for boat restoration projects. So your boat project starts costing real money from Day 1 of ownership. Four years in you've spent £1000 on bits and materials and £6000 on site fees. There's at least 6 boats in our marina yard that could be had for £1.

Grinding up boats would actually make boating cheaper - get rid of the clutter and actually make people realise that those with boats of absolutely no marketable value do have a way out of the constant cost cycle. The boat next to me has been for sale for 15 years. Back then I offered £7500 for it but the broker said my offer was derisory and wouldn't even bother informing the owner as they wanted £25000. He's now spent a further £30,000 on it for storage/insurance and would happily take £1 for it to rid him of the costs. The story is repeated all over.
 

guardian

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I don't think so. Yards are full of boats that could be had for peanuts. Then what? In the UK land is expensive and for most people they have to pay to use a bit of someone else's for boat restoration projects. So your boat project starts costing real money from Day 1 of ownership. Four years in you've spent £1000 on bits and materials and £6000 on site fees. There's at least 6 boats in our marina yard that could be had for £1.

Grinding up boats would actually make boating cheaper - get rid of the clutter and actually make people realise that those with boats of absolutely no marketable value do have a way out of the constant cost cycle. The boat next to me has been for sale for 15 years. Back then I offered £7500 for it but the broker said my offer was derisory and wouldn't even bother informing the owner as they wanted £25000. He's now spent a further £30,000 on it for storage/insurance and would happily take £1 for it to rid him of the costs. The story is repeated all over.
^This^

It amazes me on social media how people froth at the mouth about how lovely this boat is and that boat is and how it should be saved but cold hearted economics rules the day with a few exceptions such as myself and one or two others, most boats from the 60's, 70's and 80's have little to no economic value set against the costs of ownership in todays world. They are worthless unrecyclable lumps.

Although i'm still amazed there's no real equivalent of car scrapyards for boats, I would've thought that would be a boon for us owners of older boats that can't find or get spares anymore. I know boatbreakers exists but if they do return your call after many attempts the bits i was after were dearer than new!

As for adding a levy to a new boats price imo would seal the fate of boat manufacturing for good in the 30 - 50 ft range, but is that a bad thing given the millions of perfectly usable boats still about ?
 

Refueler

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I'm amazed at the pessimism ...

If I was offered a redeemable boat for 1 pound and I was still in UK .. I would seriously consider.

There used to be a 'Scrapyard' for boats ......... Nationwide Boat Sales ..... basically a big yard that a boat ended up in that couldn't sell on usual market.
But they had some boats that were worth serious look at ....

I think they've closed down now ...

As to grinding them up ........... costly ... result is still environmentally bad material in fact probably much worse than as a boat wreck.
Also many boats discarded - when owners are approached to sell ... the cash bells ring and they get stupid ... I know from personal experience trying to buy at fair price discarded boats .....
1. Macwester Wight ... guy wanted over 10K for a boat that was worth max 500 quid .. sails were shot full of rat holes, mast was de-anodised etc. Bilge keels needed work etc.
2. Snapdragon 26 ... guy wanted all yard bills paid (about 5yrs worth) + daft price for boat of 8K ... hatches gone, mast step needed replacing, ... sails all mouldy .... mast missing items ... no gooseneck fittings ....
3. Waterwitch .... dragged up a creek and left to rot .... I offered to take her over while still a going concern but owner refused .. then later asked stupid price - but by then the ply sheets had sprung ... rotted and she was settled into the mud. He also wanted yard bills paid.

Those are just 3 examples I can illustrate ...
 

jac

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People will not pay for a redeemable "hulk" already, they are completely uneconomic to restore, This is why there are so many in the first place!
I should know I have rebuilt two elderly grp yachts & in no way was it viable except as a labour of love. Add in that i was in the trade since i left school so was able to do all the work myself.
Its all very well putting disposal surcharge on new boats but it adds another cost onto the price.
Clubs, yards or Harbour authorities could start demanding a "disposal bond" if you like, where the only way your boat would be allowed on site is if you pay a disposal charge up front, returnable if you & the boat left in good order. If you die or disapear the Club or whoever has the money to scrap the boat.
Ultimately though i hate to say it the only fair way is a universal licencing scheme for everyone.
Disposal bond though does nothing for the backlog of worthless hulks that are already there. I don;t think that licensing is the way - perhaps more a regional / HM levy. So for example the Hamble HM could add a small annual fee to every mooring holder ( Max £50) to pay for the cost of disposal of boats left abandoned.

Doesn't really address of boats still being paid for but no prospect of being used.
 
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