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Collision avoidance

Pye_End

Well-known member
Joined
5 Feb 2006
Messages
4,411
Location
N Kent Coast
Options available -

Don't sleep more than 20min at a go; radar; AIS; passive and hope nobody hits you.

radar seems difficult to manage (weight and power) on such sized boats, so what do people generally do?
 

JREdginton

New member
Joined
15 May 2006
Messages
155
What about CARD systems. I can only find 1 on the market at this time C.A.R.D (http://www.survivalsafety.com/) though I would be interested in any other options.

I think AIS is only rigged for AIS equiped vessels (over 300Tonnes?) and personally I would worry about radar missing stuff in sea clutter if not tended regularly.

Any other ideas?
 

Roberto

Well-known member
Joined
20 Jul 2001
Messages
3,948
Location
Lorient/Paris
similar to card system is the mer-veille

http://www.ciel-et-marine.com/anglais/produits.html

the usual comment is these devices are almost useless when used in high traffic areas, when too many radars are active and all leds begin flashing all together, otherwise they may be an intersting option in the open sea

I think there are two sides to consider
a) see other boats: radar, ais, card/merveille, etc
b) be seen from other boats: active or passive radar reflectors, active AIS (type B?) rather expensive at moment
 

beneteau_305_553

New member
Joined
1 Apr 2002
Messages
599
Location
Norfolk UK
I do use Radar.

I have a Furuno 1623 2.2 kw radar which is brilliant.

You can set guard zones to sound an alarm if a target is seen and it has a watchman facility that allows you to put the unit on standby and automatically wake up every 5,10 or 20 mins scan for a minute then go back to sleep.

If it sees a target in the zone you have made it sounds the alarm. How good is that?

( I also have a kitchen timer!)
 

purplerobbie

Active member
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20 Jan 2007
Messages
1,437
Location
ked Away
I fitted the card system on my vega and it was a waste of space
I would strongly advise against buying one of these. That said i know a couple who swear by them. Mine never worked properly and it went back twice.
Look at the sea-me, i have fitted one of these on this boat and so far it has worked well
Both of these rely on the other boat having a radar and having it switched on

Rob
 

purplerobbie

Active member
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20 Jan 2007
Messages
1,437
Location
ked Away
[ QUOTE ]
I do use Radar.

I have a Furuno 1623 2.2 kw radar which is brilliant.

You can set guard zones to sound an alarm if a target is seen and it has a watchman facility that allows you to put the unit on standby and automatically wake up every 5,10 or 20 mins scan for a minute then go back to sleep.

If it sees a target in the zone you have made it sounds the alarm. How good is that?

( I also have a kitchen timer!)

[/ QUOTE ]

The best way to go is to have a radar but they do use quite a few amps Even if you only have them to check every 10mins they still use a couple of amps (mine does Raymarine pathfinder)

If you say it only uses an amp that means it will use 24 amps a day and if you have 200amps of battery power you will only get roughly half that out so you have used a quarter of you battery power on one item.

a card or sea-me use about half an amp and keep a watch all the time
With the nav lights and so on your in to big power usage a day then you are looking at wind gennys and solar pannels to lkeep up

You are now quickly getting out of the spirt of the thing

Rob
 

Pye_End

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Joined
5 Feb 2006
Messages
4,411
Location
N Kent Coast
So how mch power do you use doing this?

Also how much weight do you end up with up the mast - ie. is it appropriate for a small boat going off-shore?
 

Pye_End

Well-known member
Joined
5 Feb 2006
Messages
4,411
Location
N Kent Coast
Think this anwers part of my last question.

What do the majority of the single handed Jesters go for?

Just trying to minimise the risks, but also stay within the confines of a 26 foot boat!
 

beneteau_305_553

New member
Joined
1 Apr 2002
Messages
599
Location
Norfolk UK
I have a seame reflector as well as a octahedral so other ships should see me but with radar you can see where they are. Without radar you just get a blip from the seame so you know someone else is nearby but you have no idea where. In bad visibility this is not relaxing!

The radome only weighs a couple of kg and I don't notice it.

I also have an air-X wind generator and have gone for days without startng the engine. But thats when the wind is from the beam. With a following wind forget it.

I have a sterling battery to battery charger which charges the domestic batteries very quickly. I have 4, 85 AH domestic batteries and one 75 ah engine starting battery.

For north sea sailing the radar is on continuously.
 

TimDaniel

New member
Joined
11 Jan 2007
Messages
74
Well said 'Atlantic_Dream' ..... 'The spirit of the thing' .... that's what it's all about. I haven't read the regs but they ought to send anyone with kit that reqires 4 batteries and a generator off to the Petit Bateau, although they're reasonably sensible - maybe one of those other loony French races ..... or anywhere!
 

JREdginton

New member
Joined
15 May 2006
Messages
155
Sounds very nice and tricky, I even like the idea, but! Mmmm, 5 batteries! I wonder where they could be placed on a 22ft yacht and still manage to keep the old girl afloat?

Don't get me wrong, I love technology, but for a small budget, low maintenance passage in a small boat I am coming to think a radar detector or some sort of active transponder, a decent reflector and a good alarm clock will have to do.

Thinking about it, all that loot on the battery bank alone will severly handycap my beer fund too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

purplerobbie

Active member
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20 Jan 2007
Messages
1,437
Location
ked Away
[ QUOTE ]
Well said 'Atlantic_Dream' ..... 'The spirit of the thing' .... that's what it's all about. I haven't read the regs but they ought to send anyone with kit that reqires 4 batteries and a generator off to the Petit Bateau, although they're reasonably sensible - maybe one of those other loony French races ..... or anywhere!

[/ QUOTE ]

There are no regs thats the idea
You take what you need (or think you need) to do it

You can always switch this stuff off??
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I've arranged to have the power to have the radar on 24/24, with display on the whole time and alarm set for an appropriate range - e.g. between 3 and 10nm (I don't give a toss about anything >10nm). I have not got on well with systems that look every so many minutes. With the radar in this mode you hear 'beeps' when barely-visible craft are around, sometimes tiny objects that only start to paint at 1/2 mile. The beeps keep you partly awake during cat-naps. Works for me but I can cat-nap and refresh with only half an hours sleep if I have to. As for power, I use a combination of solar and my diesel generator to recharge periodically. The genset provides hot water, battery charging and runs the watermaker. Works well but it isn't a low-cost solution. Solar makes a huge contribution, having two 185W panels but we are an electricity-hungry boat by design.

However, my wife, though refusing to take part in the sailing of the vessel, will keep a visual watch for me under ideal conditions and that makes life much easier for me...but I am on my own or on watch all the time when it's nasty or difficult.

Seems to me that for you guys who are not just single-handed but also on board alone that loneliness must be a big issue? I don't need to talk to the mast and more importantly, when things look dodgy (not very often these days) I bear up better having another soul on board. It's a psychological thing, I guess.

edit:- one typo spelling mistake
 

Pye_End

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Joined
5 Feb 2006
Messages
4,411
Location
N Kent Coast
I suppose the whole thing snowballs, and for a small boat it is a matter where best to spend the money. Interesting what you say about radar though - not sure I could sleep well unless I knew it picked up 99% of things when they should.

I don't have space for a generator (although the diesel will give a fair few hours before running out of juice; I don't really want a wind generator on the stern (perhaps one of the small ones that go on the mast?), and as for solar - not sure how big a panel I can put up where it will always see light. The outputs even with small areas of shade seem to die off so much. So I guess that it is the energy efficient option - ie no radar! Whether AIS is sufficient to give some quality sleep I do not know. I'm not too good with lots of sleep deprivation.

I know what you mean about your wife not taking part, but at least she goes with you. Mine gets very sea sick and now stays on dry land!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Nowhere near 99%. Probably 75% but then again what percentage of that 75% is a threat? 2%? If you set the radar up properly (that is a skill and you have to learn how, it isn't entirely intuitive) and listen to the beeps you soon get a feel for the difference in sounds between sea clutter and a vessel. It is an acquired skill, learnt after many hours of watch-keeping with an eye and ear on the radar and full visual watches.

I use my radar in the daytime, often, as single-handed there is a strong risk of another vessel being hidden behind the sails (usually the Genoa).

I am not going to bother with AIS unless it comes as part of a radar. There are too many objects that don't have AIS transmitters. Yachts are about the worst watch keepers, IME, and the greatest risk is hitting a yacht, not a commercial vessel. The commercial vessel will try to alter course or wake you up before hitting you (as long as you listen to Ch16 and don't rely on the DSC thingy, which I won't have on board until I am forced by law to, or until they allow you to mute and selectively inhibit unwanted alarms in some way).

I thoroughly recommend a radar - I had a decent Furuno radar on my Centaur but then I spent a lot of time in the West Country and sailing across to the CIs and Brittany where there is often fog.....essential, I thought. So even the smallest sea-going yachts can have radar and I did not have solar or a generator on the Centaur /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

2nd_apprentice

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Joined
18 Mar 2007
Messages
2,480
Location
Berlin
Good point made about AIS vs radar. However using one of those new AIS transponders would enable others to see ME. But you're absolutely right about non equipped vessels.

How many amps does your setup draw from the batteries?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I run autopilot, full instruments, VHF, radar and navtext which, I think, is about 10A but it is hard to tell as during the day I have big solar panels and at night I am burning nav lights. At night, with all nav equipment and sailing lights (I usually use port and starboard rather than tricolour) I draw just under 20A with the autopilot. So with my batteries - 560Ah - I am wanting to put some charge in, in the morning. I usually run the generator at an appropriate time, when at sea, before dawn which carries the standing load and charges the batteries as well as heating the hot water, making water and the kettle for cups of tea and refreshing flasks. So the generator is used to fair capacity for a shortish period - say 45 minutes.

The previous owner did not have solar panels and he did his circumnavigation using a considerable amount of main engine running and generator. We are electric-hungry but it isn't really a green issue (our carbon footprint is far smaller than a typical couple living in a small apartment in the UK) and it works well, we are comfortable /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for AIS I don't believe that there are any plans for the transmitters to be put onto yachts. While there is a transponder element to AIS for interrogation by officials, the basic design is as follows:-

Each ship transmits its data freely at regular intervals so a vessel in isolation (in the middle of the Pacific, all alone) will just transmit every x seconds. This depends on the speed of the vessel; the faster the vessel is going, the more often it transmits. When more than one vessel is in the same vicinity each vessel listens to the other traffic and by cunning means unknown to me arranges to send its data without transmitting over the other stations present. All ships also listen, on their AIS receivers, and yachts (or anyone) may buy an AIS receiver to listen to all the data.

So while yachts can have AIS receivers, they don't have transmitters and I don't think that they are presently permitted to carry them. Maybe one day we will all be required to have them, but not yet. Partially-submerged containers and tree-trunks will continue to be AIS exempt for a long time, I suspect /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
That yachts are permitted to carry AIS transponders is news to me (so was the term 'transponder' as they don't actually 'transpond' in their principal mode of operation), but if that's what they are called who am I to argue? The last time I looked into it was about a year ago and it was neither permitted nor available for yachts, I am fairly sure.

I have just looked on the Ofcom site and it doesn't seem to answer that question however if you do have an AIS transponder it must be included on your licence.

I wonder what screens look like in busy places like the Solent at the weekends!?

Anyway, if they are available then you have a point; they should help to alert shipping to your presence and given your yacht's name and MMSI they can either call you DSC or on Ch16. I don't suppose they will, but they could /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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