Becoming a delivery skipper

[chrisclin]

I sold my boat three weeks ago and I'm getting withdrawal symptoms already!
How does one get into yacht deliveries? I met a couple of guys over the summer who managed to fill in their time quite nicely positioning boats for owners who didn't have the time for long trips before their holidays and thought 'I can do that'.
I've got YM Offshore (Commercial). I'm not in it for the money, just expenses but what do insurance companies think about that?
Please note this is not an advert touting for business. I'm interested in peoples views on how I go about getting into this.

 

[Seajet]

I thought about getting into this business, so though I'd already done a lot of offshore sailing and done the shore-based part of night school, managed to get a YM Offshore course out of BAe when I left voluntarily ( there were loads of highly skilled people, my friends, being made forcibly redundant, so there was a budget for 'retraining' ).

After seeing a sailing instructor's lifestyle - I was with the excellent but now defunct Solent School of Yachting - 6 long days a week if not 7, and cooking for the punters at the end of each trip - I changed my mind !

I did apply for a delivery job, then the skipper of the boat ( which was a ketch stranded in Biscay ) turned up almost begging me to join him, he was still soaked in diesel, and the boat had been hit by lightning, he admitted it had no instruments, starting the engine was by 'hot-wiring', the headsails and mizzen were shot, but the main was reasonable; he'd be willing to pay for food only !!!

I think you can guess my response...

A friend who is an excellent sailor has made a go of it though, he's now skippering a large sailing yacht, and his wife - who he met on the job, so to speak - does the catering.

It hasn't been all rosy for him though, he worked as skipper on a large gin palace in the Med', at one stage off Italy a human body wrapped in plastic ( so I think suicide or accident can be ruled out ) came up with the anchor; the owner ordered to put the victim back, to avoid paperwork...

At the end of a long hard season, the owner said he didn't feel like paying them.

It seems a pretty hand to mouth occupation with a steep learning curve - and I don't mean sailing !

 

[webcraft]

It seems a pretty hand to mouth occupation with a steep learning curve - and I don't mean sailing !

Yes, and the OP isn't helping matters by offering to work for food!

- W

 

[Mark-1]

Yes, and the OP isn't helping matters by offering to work for food!

I'm prepared to undercut him and pay for my own food.

In fact, now I think back I've twice delivered boats and left the owner a bottle of red in gratitude.

 

[Tranona]

I sold my boat three weeks ago and I'm getting withdrawal symptoms already!
How does one get into yacht deliveries? I met a couple of guys over the summer who managed to fill in their time quite nicely positioning boats for owners who didn't have the time for long trips before their holidays and thought 'I can do that'.
I've got YM Offshore (Commercial). I'm not in it for the money, just expenses but what do insurance companies think about that?
Please note this is not an advert touting for business. I'm interested in peoples views on how I go about getting into this.

You are qualified - you just need to get experience. Unlikely you will get well paid skipper work immediately, but there is always demand for unpaid crew. You probably need to sign up with agents as most of the work is through a small number of agents and you need to build a network. If you are good and prepared to take on jobs as they come up you can earn a reasonable living or supplement as pension.

I hired a skipper and crew through an agency and the skipper was never short of work, but had been doing it for several years - when not using his own boat.

With regard to insurance, my company covered my boat but not third party risks when skipper was in command, and it would be sensible to have Professional Indenmity insurance.

 

[Pete In The East]

Earlier this year, I toyed with the idea of enroling for a £7k 3 month YM Offshore (Commercial) course.

I asked them what the prospects might be for someone with this ticket and they seemed pretty confident I could make as much as £25k per annum.

I was a little bit doubtful this was a realistic figure, but saling for a living isn't all about money.

I did consider that i'd be starting -£7k and that there was no guarantee i'd complete the course with the desired certification.

I was also concerned how the paying customers would view those who have taken a fast track YM course and whether they'd be comfortable hiring someone with minimal experience.

 

[DownWest]

It hasn't been all rosy for him though, he worked as skipper on a large gin palace in the Med', at one stage off Italy a human body wrapped in plastic ( so I think suicide or accident can be ruled out ) came up with the anchor; the owner ordered to put the victim back, to avoid paperwork...

At the end of a long hard season, the owner said he didn't feel like paying them.

It seems a pretty hand to mouth occupation with a steep learning curve - and I don't mean sailing ![/QUOTE]

Is this a common thing in Italy (not being paid)? I know of a highly qualified shipright who worked on the restoration of a very large and much admired classic yacht. He was a sort of team leader for the project. At the end, he had huge problems with getting his money and was not invited for the launch. The owner seemed to think it was OK not to care about the 'serfs'.
Of course it might be coupled with the lousy legal system there, where money talks, and delays can be many years.
A

 

[Old Troll]

Old Troll

With all due respect. Please do not sail without a reasonable pay. By sailing for food and expenses etc you are undermining the Skipper / Instructors who do it for a living and pay and conditions and standards will never improve.

Old Trolls Union

 

[Tintin]

With all due respect. Please do not sail without a reasonable pay. By sailing for food and expenses etc you are undermining the Skipper / Instructors who do it for a living and pay and conditions and standards will never improve.

Old Trolls Union

So what are the going rates?

 

[Ubergeekian]

With all due respect. Please do not sail without a reasonable pay. By sailing for food and expenses etc you are undermining the Skipper / Instructors who do it for a living and pay and conditions and standards will never improve.

So what? How does it benefit the rest of us to have delivery prices artificially high?

 

[nimbusgb]

I sold my boat three weeks ago and I'm getting withdrawal symptoms already!
How does one get into yacht deliveries? I met a couple of guys over the summer who managed to fill in their time quite nicely positioning boats for owners who didn't have the time for long trips before their holidays and thought 'I can do that'.
I've got YM Offshore (Commercial). I'm not in it for the money, just expenses but what do insurance companies think about that?
Please note this is not an advert touting for business. I'm interested in peoples views on how I go about getting into this.

Insurance companies hate it! I own my own boat, have been sailing since I was a teenager so about 40 years, have done some serious offshore stuff and have all the little bits of paper from the RYA.

When I offered to deliver a forumites boat for the cost of the rail tickets to start and from destination, the insurance company ran a mile!

Seems I should have charged him something!

PS if you want to do a long delivery ( Greece / UK ) I may be in the market since I now have no time due to having a j o b!

 

[webcraft]

Insurance companies hate it! I own my own boat, have been sailing since I was a teenager so about 40 years, have done some serious offshore stuff and have all the little bits of paper from the RYA.

Do you have a current commercial endorsement? If not then you could be on a sticky wicket insurance-wise even if you were only 'working' for rail tickets.

- W

 

[nimbusgb]

Yes I do have commercial up to 200 gt. And I have never claimed against or been involved in any boating incident just to anticipate the question!

 

[Seajet]

Please understand my bias as someone who's spent more years than I care to count accruing hard earned experience, but I have a pretty poor view of 'fast track' yachtmaster tickets.

Sailing the requisite 2,500 miles then sitting an exam does not equal years handling various boats, racing dinghies to Falmouth Working Boats & square riggers ( it happens more or less by accident if one spends long enough afloat) in all conditions...

When I finally did my yachtmaster Offshore at the end of 1992, my instructors were red hot, a submariner who did Fastnets etc, a Jersey lifeboat cox, a Square rigger skipper, and the examiner, a great guy, was a veteran of about every Fastnet since WWII !

I don't think they'd be very keen on Fast Track merchants.

Thankyou if reading this, Mike, Pete, Chris of the late Solent School of Yachting.

P.S, I found more or less by accident that it's much better to take such a course in winter - you only get serious instructors, and co-students will be serious about it too, not just along to pose and get a suntan.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Do you have a current commercial endorsement? If not then you could be on a sticky wicket insurance-wise even if you were only 'working' for rail tickets.

- W

Is there an insurance company that will insure a totally unqualified person to do paid yacht deliveries? I can't any reason why there wouldn't be.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Insurance companies hate it! I own my own boat, have been sailing since I was a teenager so about 40 years, have done some serious offshore stuff and have all the little bits of paper from the RYA.

When I offered to deliver a forumites boat for the cost of the rail tickets to start and from destination, the insurance company ran a mile!

My insurers - GJW - were utterly unconcerned by the delivery. "It's just as if you lent her to a friend" they said.

 

[chrisclin]

I don't know where the Fasttrack YM issue came from - like Nimbusgb I finally got my bits of paper 5 years ago after 40 years of sailing. I converted it to Commercial but am aware that runs out soon and was seriously considering not investing a further £150 in a medical to renew it.
The charging issue is an interesting one. I don't want to do professionals out of work, but on the other hand I am not in the business of making a career out of it. I would also prefer not to work under extreme pressure to deliver whatever the weather which I suspect one would be if one was under a paid contract.
I suppose that the ideal solution would be to do it for friends. Unfortunately the only friends I have with boats already have their boats where they want them.
Someone asked what the going rates were. Does anyone have an answer?

 

[samwise]

Generally, there are three levels of crew: Skipper- who gets paid. Mate -- who does not but gets all expenses paid and Deckhand who does not get paid and has to pay a proportion of travel costs ( flights, surface travel etc) but gets fed and watered while on board.

There are some cowboys in the business, better to sign up to a reputable outfit such as PYD if you are looking for experience and milebuilding.

You may also need to do a lot of pontoon cruising at key possible employment points. For example, Gran Canaria from November on for the ARC boats.Even if you don't get a paid gig, it will get you to the Caribbean and in the right place to suss out more work. Antibes and Fort Lauderdale are other possibles but I don't know what the Green Card implications are for the latter.

Sadly, it's not that glamorous and it can mean days of polishing and cleaning and waiting for the owner to turn up with his guests. But you can live pretty well and at least it is likely to be sunny!

 

[fireball]

Please understand my bias as someone who's spent more years than I care to count accruing hard earned experience, but I have a pretty poor view of 'fast track' yachtmaster tickets.

Sailing the requisite 2,500 miles then sitting an exam does not equal years handling various boats, racing dinghies to Falmouth Working Boats & square riggers ( it happens more or less by accident if one spends long enough afloat) in all conditions...

When I finally did my yachtmaster Offshore at the end of 1992, my instructors were red hot, a submariner who did Fastnets etc, a Jersey lifeboat cox, a Square rigger skipper, and the examiner, a great guy, was a veteran of about every Fastnet since WWII !

I don't think they'd be very keen on Fast Track merchants.

My DS Theory instructor was (apparently) a YM Instructor too ... I wouldn't have trusted him in my tender let alone in charge of it ... and no way would I let him set foot on the proper boat! I was glad I had a clue about sailing - there were some in the class who 'passed' who shouldn't be in charge of a bath duck!

My DS Practical Instructor and subsequent YM Theory Instructor were far better and of the calibre expected. If either were Fast Track it didn't show (one I know wasn't the other I couldn't tell you)

 

[Seajet]

2 suggestions, 1 of which might be a surprise.

Falmouth is a lot closer, and I've been approached there by owners looking for experienced people - well worth a go, put a word in with the harboumaster ( I don't know if Dennis is still doing it, but he's a brilliant guy, and the only 'lock-in' in a pub I've experienced, with blue water and square rigger sailors all around was thanks in no small part to him - made a lot of enduring contacts ).

It would also be worth putting a word around in the waterside 'Chain Locker' pub, but you'd have to be serious, I expect they get a fair few dreamers.

Another option; this is NOT sailing;

I fell into a job as 'Matelot' on a hotel barge in Burgundy one season.

It's moderately physical work, in absolutely FANTASTIC scenery - though it can become incredibly hot and it's worth knowing something about diesels, but it's well paid ( in 1994 I was taking home £300 a week ) with all - excellent, same as the millionaire guests - food & beer supplied and a cabin to sleep in.

There's always a demand for people, there are several firms at it from Dijon, which range from loads of cabins & 20+ guests, ( Continental, might be fun to crew on though, especially judging by the crumpet hostesses ! )to the thing I was on, 6 double cabins for strictly American millionaires ( I found them almost all great people ) and there are further upmarket barges - all barges are usually 38metres long, designed to fit into locks with 2" spare - I'm not joking, but it's easier than it sounds.

When I left I put a chum on, he soon became a skipper ( or 'pilot' as they're known ) and met & married a French girl. Most crews are English, only the Chef's are French.

I did get withdawal symptoms for sailing, so one day the Chef and I took the tender ( used for re-painting at weekends ) along a lovely river, with a large deck umbrella for a sail, steered by a deck brush...

I'd recommend it for an experience though, and it won't do any harm to your bank balance.

Try 'French Country Waterways' on google, but there are plenty of others such as the aforementioned Continental. If fancying this and stuck please feel free to PM me.