You're all incompetent!

Come on - do 'name and shame' ! If only so that I can avoid their products like the plague, 'cos they're clearly too complicated for me to fit, and therefore probably not durable enough for the marine environment.......
 
Gwylan said:
Brushes with alleged professionals have not been good in my experience. Their only training is to turn up late and suck air through their teeth whilst talking up the bill and expressing amazement that we have not caught fire, sunk, been arrested or gassed in our beds.

Without exception I have been shafted by engineers...
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Our experience with boat tradesmen has been generally very satisfactory. Perhaps the two key reasons were taking recommendations and realistic expectations.

We've tried to build up continuing relationships with several companies. Dealing with a known quantity is usually easier.

To me the term engineer denotes a professional qualification, above degree level, and membership of a relevant professional body. Nowadays all sorts of people that would once have been called mechanics, fitters or technicians are referred to as engineers - "the BT engineer is coming to fix the telephone". It must be terribly misleading for the less well informed members of the public.

I have largely rewired my own boat, fitted a new heads system, installed a new cooker (NOT gas) and renewed lots of woodwork etc. The work has been (mostly) very enjoyable but we brought in experts to fit a new engine etc., upholstery and sprayhood.

Surely the majority of cruising boat owners do at least some repair, maintenance and refitting? The chap Salty John was debating with must be very detached from the boating world I inhabit.

P.S. I have bought and fitted 2 Metz VHF antennae, both at the masthead. The name of the supplier is well known on these forums...
 
Salty John said:
I’ve just concluded a debate by email with the manager of a marine electrical products manufacturer. Discussing customer support and warranty issues I told him that his product would typically be bought from a chandlery and fitted by the boat owner.

His reaction to the fact that boat owners might undertake the installation of DC electrics was scathing:..... boat owners haven’t a clue when it comes to the engineering of their boats but to save money or to feed their ego or just for something to do they take on jobs beyond their competence...blah, blah, blah. Boats catch fire etc, etc. you can buy a scalpel but it doesn't mean you can do surgery etc.

I was quite surprised at this attitude. after all, the item in question is only a 12v bilge pump switch!

It had never occurred to me that the typical boater would employ an electrical engineer to fit the bilge switch he'd just picked up at his local chandlery. I'm sure some do but I've always imagined that most boaters would take the DIY route.

So, do you know your own level of competence or are you inclined to set about open heart surgery because it looks easy?
Click to expand...

The blokes an arrogant pratt,he's probably not competent himself!
 
Salty John said:
I’ve just concluded a debate by email with the manager of a marine electrical products manufacturer. Discussing customer support and warranty issues I told him that his product would typically be bought from a chandlery and fitted by the boat owner.

His reaction to the fact that boat owners might undertake the installation of DC electrics was scathing:..... boat owners haven’t a clue when it comes to the engineering of their boats but to save money or to feed their ego or just for something to do they take on jobs beyond their competence...blah, blah, blah. Boats catch fire etc, etc. you can buy a scalpel but it doesn't mean you can do surgery etc.

I was quite surprised at this attitude. after all, the item in question is only a 12v bilge pump switch!
Click to expand...

The obvious candidate doesn't make bilge pump switches. I wonder who it is?
 
My boating pleasure has improved immeasurably since I have contracted competent people to service/look after our boat. Sure it costs a bit more, but what price the ability to Relax and not get stressed. I am not particularly well off, but it's money we'll spent. Going to the boat is a pleasure not a chore.

I do the stuff that I want to do, not need to do!
 
I would suggest that most boat owners have more skill in maintaining their boats including DC electrics than the skills he exhibits in his chosen business, i.e. a total lack of sales skills or customer service.

SaltyJohn, perhaps you should suggest to him that he stops selling to the DIY market and just sells to the professionals, then see how long he stays in business!
 
AntarcticPilot said:
I understand plastering, but why tiling? I've done it and with the right tools it is pretty easy - if I can do it, anyone can!
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I'm generally pretty handy with woodwork, electrics, plumbing, mechanicking, a little welding, etc etc, but it seems to all go to pot as soon as I approach any of the "wet trades". I'm rubbish at bricklaying too :) Anything that involves cement/mortar/plaster/etc I just don't seem to get on with.

I did plan to tile my bathroom when i rebuilt it (new floorboards on up) but did two rows of those mosaic mats (the ones with lots of little tiles held on a 1' square of mesh) in the shower tray and realised that they were all over the place and I would spend years hating the result if I did it all like that.

Got a pro in to finish the job, which was tricky in itself - unlike boiler technicians and car mechanics you don't really get emergency tilers - most people know well in advance that they're going to need tiles laid! Did need doing urgently though, as we were all showering in a cubicle of blue poly-tarp I'd set up in the garden :D

I can keep it together for a few reasonable-sized tiles, especially on the floor, which is why I said "large expanses" in my original post.

Pete
 
A good look at a used boat show will tend to find some comedy wiring.
The worst bodges on my first boat were allegedly done by a Naval Architect though!
 
galadriel said:
SaltyJohn, perhaps you should suggest to him that he stops selling to the DIY market and just sells to the professionals, then see how long he stays in business!
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Quite right. That was the point of my discussion with him - like it or not you are selling to a market of DIY'ers, I told him.
His company offer a guarantee that they then get out of by claiming the purchaser damaged the switch whilst installing it. We offer a no quibble guarantee on all our products so we would replace the switch and then end up fighting with this supplier to get our stock of faulty switches replaced, which they would decline to do on the basis that our customer - you lot - were incompetent installers.

Must dash, but I'll be back with more replies tomorrow.
 
I enjoy doing everything my self - I know the job's done properly, I save money, I know what and where everything is - in fact should anyone go to sea without having someone that knows how to do at least basic stuff? Oh, then there is the satisfaction of actually having done it :)

And as for 12Vdc, simples, you just join that string stuff together to stop the magic smoke escaping.
 
Gwylan said:
What twerp!

Without exception I have been shafted by engineers.
The last one told me he had to replace the engine mount rubbers whilst replacing the stern gland and cutless bearing.
The most professional bit of his act was the full palette of creativity he brought to the bill he composed to rival the Greek national debt.

He was as much a stranger to the truth as he was to any pretence of engineering skill.

QUOTE]

I very much doubt reading your exprience that your tradesmen were 'engineers'.

Engineers are registered with the Engineering Council as T Eng, I Eng and C Eng. Some C Engineers become Fellows of their Institute and thus sign themselves as F Eng. If you were unhappy with their performance or ethics then you can complain to their professional institute.



So tom dick or harry turning up in a white van is not an engineer by definition what ever he may title he gives himself unless he indicates he has got the above qualifications. Neither are firms calling themselves Engineers unless thay have qualified staff on the books.

Sadly we British as a nation are very sloppy with our descriptions and acceptance of sloppy standards hence the common term washing 'engineer' etc. .We reap what we sow.

Brian

who happens to be a Eur Ing, MSc, C Eng, C Mar Eng etc etc)
Click to expand...
 
lw395 said:
A good look at a used boat show will tend to find some comedy wiring.
The worst bodges on my first boat were allegedly done by a Naval Architect though!
Click to expand...
Yes when a naval architect told me that he had tried to repair the fractured oil feed to the valve rocker shaft with araldite before buying a new one!!!
 
ffiill said:
Yes when a naval architect told me that he had tried to repair the fractured oil feed to the valve rocker shaft with araldite before buying a new one!!!
Click to expand...

Is it the same bloke I wonder?
Is there a whole trail of C**** B******** bodges out there?
 
Positively the worst piece of electonics and electrical wiring I have found was on our last boat, as installed by 'professionals' at QAB Plymouth. to mention just a few errors, they had managed to install one Adverc regulator with the wrong polarity, to wire it up incorrectly anyway, join the wrong two battery banks together and then connect the Adverc sense lead to the one battery that was always fully charged, not that it mattered because the Adverc wouldn't work because of being the wrong polarity. Then there was the emergency VHF aerial fitted to the goalpost gantry, an excellent idea but not if the lead was cut so short it wouldn't reach the VHF it was to be used with. There were similar cockups with the wind generator regulator wiring and the shorepower charger, which also sensed the need to charge or not from the engine battery, the one least likely to be depleted after a long sail. It took me months to sort out and with a lot of help from Adverc who replaced the TWO units these idiots had got wrong and ruined. I saw the original work order instructions from the then owners, I didn't see the final bill but I imagine it was as eye watering as the work done was incompetent. The POs wondered why their system didn't do what was expected, but once finally corrected it was superb.
 
Last edited:
When i bought my current boat, there were quite a few faults, most were corrosion related.

When fixing them, the past owner had bypassed the fridge fuse, never replacing it, simply taking the spades off the fuse holder then joining them together.

Later i pulled the main switch board, I had found a receipt for a 125a fuse, i was looking at the main board which had a home type breaker of 80 amp, i switched it off and checked to see if there was voltage at the distribution side, there was still voltage, i thought for a minute is must have short circuited then realised, there was no wire on the supply side, he had bypassed the breaker and tied the main input cable to the output side.

Enough knowledge to be dangerous, is what i say and many people are like that!
 
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