YM test of GT35

[dunedin]

Three things I would add briefly

1) thanks to YM and Snooks for testing the GT35 - I was looking forward to hearing more about this interesting new boat, so read immediately on receiving my copy of YM

2) At the end of the day, the only views that matter are from people likely to be in the market to buy a new boat, and the cash to indulge their desire to have something a bit different

3). I hope that GT Yachts do some tweaks to the interior to make it look and feel a bit more special and bring an updated version to Southampton for prospective buyers to see for themselves

 

[snooks]

Some details...

With the constraints on page space, my words and photographs etc there was only so much I could fit into the article. As there seems to be a lot of fuss about the quality/price/looks here are some of the other photographs I took on the day:

All images ©Graham Snook Photography

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

The lower quality, volume manufacturers almost universally used chop strand mat in their layups which is much less strong than orientated matting - hence needed to use more of it.

Thanks for this. Refreshing to see a specific engineering fact introduced to the topic. Very welcome.

I think most people are pretty familiar with CSM but "orientated matting" is a new one on me and (seemingly) to google. Can you point to a link which explains further or is it just a different name for something we're all familiar with?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

a photograph of wood treated with melamine and stuck onto a piece of MDF.

Don't you....

now and again....

just feel a little bit......

of a Silly Billy?

 

[Tempus]

Thanks for this. Refreshing to see a specific engineering fact introduced to the topic. Very welcome.

I think most people are pretty familiar with CSM but "orientated matting" is a new one on me and (seemingly) to google. Can you point to a link which explains further or is it just a different name for something we're all familiar with?

Aplogies. I'm referring to uni directional matting which transfer loads along specific lines. My fault for using the term orientated.

Back to the GT35. If I was the founder I'd be upset that YM chose the pic of the "bland railway compartment" vs that fantastic joinery work. No wonder he pm'd me after an earlier post offering to show me the boat in person. I can now see where the money has gone. Some humble pie on the menu here.

 

[causeway]

It does look British at least- purposeful and largely unflamboyant.

I haven't read the article but I like the proper closed platform at the back and lack of a sugar scoop. Makes much more sense in northern latitudes. A hard windscreen would make it look better too, I reckon.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Aplogies. I'm referring to uni directional matting which transfer loads along specific lines. My fault for using the term orientated.

Thanks! You were close enough - I should have realized - shouldn't have taken Rufus to work out what you meant!

 

[pvb]

The lower quality, volume manufacturers almost universally used chop strand mat in their layups which is much less strong than orientated matting - hence needed to use more of it.

Really? http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...achts-change&p=4239000&highlight=#post4239000

 

[onesea]

33ºC and getting hotter here...

45ºc here today some one told me... Not certain I believe it but was in the 40's that's for sure...

 

[JumbleDuck]

What a lovely light switch.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Hence quoting the fact that Bavarias weigh more than HR's is irrelevant unless we understand what the weight is. Spraying in lots of extra CSM "just in case" is quicker and cheaper than a careful handlay up.

I will now enjoy watching all the people who knocked Bavarias for being too light start instead to knock Bavarias for being too heavy.

 

[snooks]

Thanks for this. Refreshing to see a specific engineering fact introduced to the topic. Very welcome.

I think most people are pretty familiar with CSM but "orientated matting" is a new one on me and (seemingly) to google. Can you point to a link which explains further or is it just a different name for something we're all familiar with?

If I may...

Orientated matting, is also know as woven rovings, is matting laid in a certain direction to reinforce an area...in chopped strand mat, the glass fibres are chopped and layered like pick-up-sticks. With woven rovings the glass strands are continuous and woven into a coarse cloth. The most common can be in the form of unidirectional all the fibres laid in the same direction, or bi-directional, fibres usually arranged at 90 degrees.

This cloth is then laminated in a direction where it will be strongest for the hull:

This is the hull of a Contest, see the way the cloth is arranged in patterns.

The eagle eyed amongst you will notice some nitwit forgot to add the resin...that's because Contest vacuums infuse their hulls...the hulls are laid up dry, they are covered in a membrane (thick polythene style sheet) all the air is sucked out, then tubes in vats of resin are opened and the vacuum suck in the resin. This is good because there is no (well little) strength in resin on it's own...It's very brittle. It's also good because there isn't styrene floating around in the air poisoning their workers...But what does this mean?

Exhibit b

This is a section cut from the hull of a big Contest. The far piece is 47.5mm thick, the front piece is 21.5mm think...They have the same amount of glass in, so are roughly the same strength. Now here's the important bit...Just warning you in case you missed it. The piece at the front weights around 70% less than the piece at the back...that's right, it has the same strength, but has 70% less resin, making it around 70% lighter.

So it's thinner and lighter but has the same strength...how does that work??? (it was a rhetorical question btw)

 

[JumbleDuck]

So int's thinner and lighter but has the same strength...how does that work??? (it was a rhetorical question btw)

It works because all the strength is in the glass, which is amazingly strong stuff if you (a) put it in the right place and (b) prevent the surface from getting scratched. Both of which are the roles of the resin.

What's a rhetorical question?

Edit: Note, though that thinner sections with the same glass content will have significantly less stiffness in bending, because material further from the plane of bending does more work. Hence, for example, the use of foam or balsa cores.

 

[snooks]

Back to the GT35. If I was the founder I'd be upset that YM chose the pic of the "bland railway compartment" vs that fantastic joinery work.

I was left wanting by the saloon, I commented on it and I felt the saloon picture was needed to illustrate my point. I did highlight the quality of the workmanship "Although the saloon design didn't excite me, I appreciated the craftsmanship of the faultless shut-lines in the furniture and the concealing of all the hinges from view, including the door hinges. The saloon table has pieces of solid oak that form a tray in the centre."
Sadly Simon, the art editor, doesn't have room to fit in all the photos I give him to illustrate my waffle.

You can read my conclusion/summary here if anyone hasn't read it already:
http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/reviews/boats/1/129179/gt-35-yachting-monthly-review#csYlVhP7yAp4DhCz.99

 

[mjcoon]

... With woven rovings the glass strands are continuous and woven into a coarse cloth. The most common can be in the form of unidirectional all the fibres laid in the same direction, or bi-directional, fibres usually arranged at 90 degrees.

Fibres at 90 degrees are what I recognise as woven. I don't understand the concept of unidirectional weaving, though!

Mike.

 

[rogerball0]

Down below (stylistically) very confused, (nav area picture sums up the problem perfectly) i haven't seen that many different profiles of wood in the same square foot since i ran out a dozen or so for a customer to choose one to trim out her window seat with, basically too much going on.

Go to lucabrenta.com to see yacht interiors with a level of detailing that borders on mental-illness (imo) as well as stunningly beautiful yacht design.

The picture of the vent - whoever did that, made that - whatever - get that person to re-design the interior, in one picture that encapsulates perfectly a level of detail and coherence (straight lines and curves in the same spot) that the rest of that boats interior lacks.

Also the three-quid-a-pair screwfix drawer runners (top drawer) does not a quality boat make, FWIW Blum make their soft-close range in stainless steel as do accuride who do the most wonderfully over-engineered set of drawer runners i've ever fitted.

cheers

Roger 'Llewelyn-Bowen' Ball

I make these comments half taking-the-piss but with my professional head on, it just seems obvious to my eye thats all.....................

 

[snooks]

Fibres at 90 degrees are what I recognise as woven. I don't understand the concept of unidirectional weaving, though!

Mike.

Uni-direction has thread running it at 90 degrees holding it all together in a cloth.

 

[ralphmalph]

It works because all the strength is in the glass, which is amazingly strong stuff if you (a) put it in the right place and (b) prevent the surface from getting scratched. Both of which are the roles of the resin.

What's a rhetorical question?

Edit: Note, though that thinner sections with the same glass content will have significantly less stiffness in bending, because material further from the plane of bending does more work. Hence, for example, the use of foam or balsa cores.

On their own the glass has better tensile strength the resin has better compression strength. Put the two together and you get the best of both worlds (infact better). Why better because the bond between the materials adds to the strength properties.

So the answer to the question is that there will be an optimum distance between resin and fibre required for max strength in compression, tension and shear. If that distance between bonds can not be achieved by painting or spraying the resin then there will be waste resin useds. Vacuum manufacture may get closer to the ideal, hence less resin used but same material properties except weight.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

The lower quality, volume manufacturers almost universally used chop strand mat in their layups which is much less strong than orientated matting - hence needed to use more of it.

Really? http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...achts-change&p=4239000&highlight=#post4239000

when laying-up the hulls, rather than just throwing loads of heavy chopstrand and resin at it to make it thick and heavy, they {Bavaria} work from a set of laminating drawings for each layer, which defines what type of cloth is used, and the orientation and position of the cloth.

Shome mishtake, shurely?

 

[Tranona]

Really? http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...achts-change&p=4239000&highlight=#post4239000

Useful to refer back to that just to show that nothing has changed. There are people that only see what they want to see.

As you would expect I agree totally with BobC. Before I bought my boat I had a long talk with a well respected surveyor who had just been to the factory on behalf of a client buying a new boat - he confirmed everything was as claimed. He wished all builders were as good, although it would put him out of business as much of his work was sorting out snag lists on new boats on behalf of clients.

As I noted earlier my boat was just about faultless on delivery, went straight to work and has given very little trouble since. Compare that with some of the owners' experiences I have come across with other boats, particularly the more expensive brands.

Not knocking the GT35 nor any other premium brand where a lot of hand work has gone into the finish, but it is the law of diminishing returns - the added value in terms of functionality and enjoyment does not increase at the same rate as the price. So if you can get 90% of the value at 2/3 of the price or less why not?