YM test of GT35

snooks said:
The fact it's a UK company is another reason to big up the home grown boat and wave the union flag - not something we have a chance to do often ;)
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Oh.

I thought boat reviews were supposed to report on the boats as tested, and not to reflect a desire to "big up" a particular maker's products. What sort of score would you have given the GT35 if she had been build in France or Germany? Can we now assume that all foreign built yachts are marked down for insufficient Britishness?
 
It's intriguing that there are posters who seem to believe that Bavarias are so flimsily built that they're barely safe to cross the Solent in, whereas other makes built to far lighter specifications are deemed fit for offshore work.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Oh.

I thought boat reviews were supposed to report on the boats as tested, and not to reflect a desire to "big up" a particular maker's products. What sort of score would you have given the GT35 if she had been build in France or Germany? Can we now assume that all foreign built yachts are marked down for insufficient Britishness?
Click to expand...

Do you actually read the post I was replying to and you subsequently quoted from? From some of your previous rants I'm guessing not.

I felt it was important to test the GT35 because it was British and the first boat from a new company. I didn't say that being British it tugged on my patriotic heart strings, I went teary eyed and thought it's the best boat in the world...It's country of origin hasn't skewed my opinion on it in the slightest. But if you'd taken the time to read the test you would know that.

Speaking of the test....Have you actually read the test in this month's Yachting Monthly?

OK if not the test....Have you actually been onboard the GT35? No?

If not, what are you basing your prejudices on exactly?

The views of a lot of people who have never set foot on board her either? Or maybe it's just the price?

Do you find it hard to understand how something can cost so much more than something that looks the same? No matter how many man hours, how skilled the labour, how much thicker the wood, how clever the ideas etc etc, that all means nothing, after all you could if you were so inclined buy Varianta 37 for 1/3 of the price.

Have you been on a Varianta/Hanse/Beneteau/Legeng/Jeanneau/Dehler/Arcona/Dufour/Hallberg Rassy/Najad/Rustler/Bavaria/Allures/Elan/Winner/Sunbeam/Contest etc etc etc in order to make an informed opinion? Have you been around all those manufacturers factories to see the difference in how those boats are constructed?

Did a GT35 run over your dog or something? :)
 
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Cripes it's getting hot in here!! ...and the Met forecast tomorrow and Friday to be even hotter!
 
snooks said:
It's cool over here, I've got my office window open, nice breeze blowing in, I'm looking out over my garden, relaxing tunes...Just putting another boat test to bed. :)
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Yachting Monthly don't offer "job tests" I suppose?
 
pvb said:
It's intriguing that there are posters who seem to believe that Bavarias are so flimsily built that they're barely safe to cross the Solent in, whereas other makes built to far lighter specifications are deemed fit for offshore work.
Click to expand...

Can we put this "weight" = "quality" issue to bed once and for all please.

We visited lots of yards and did lots of research looking for our last boat. The lower quality, volume manufacturers almost universally used chop strand mat in their layups which is much less strong than orientated matting - hence needed to use more of it. You only have to look at race boats to see that producing heavy can be cheap, boat materials tend to be quite cheap weight for weight so it is perfectly possible to build a cheap boat that is heavier and weaker than a stronger, more expensive one. Hence quoting the fact that Bavarias weigh more than HR's is irrelevant unless we understand what the weight is. Spraying in lots of extra CSM "just in case" is quicker and cheaper than a careful handlay up.

I haven't read any post on this or any other forum that implied Bavarias could not cross the Solent. I've read lots from arm chair blue water cruisers saying that keels will spontaneously detach once the Western Approaches are in sight, but surely nobody (not even themselves I hope) take them seriously.

Interestingly, and somewhat counter to this argument, because I'm a but of a geek I did a comparison of boat costs per weight a year ago or so ago when we weere looking at new boats. "Premium" ie Low Volume boats (Oyster, HR, Contest, XC, Southerly, etc) cost about £60 per Kg, irrespective of brand or style or length. Mass produced boats cost around £30 per kg. There is no possible argument that the premium boats would justify their price to an accountant or cynic. However I only own one boat and love it to bits. It's a ridiculous self-indulgent irrational nonsense purchase that makes me happy. As such cost was just one part of the equation.

BTW. I buy YM largely for the new boat tests and like to dream. Snooks, please keep the reviews coming. I think we all know what a Contessa 32 or Westerly looks like and sails like, but the only way to keep up with new boats and new ideas is by reading test reports.
 
Tempus said:
Can we put this "weight" = "quality" issue to bed once and for all please.

We visited lots of yards and did lots of research looking for our last boat. The lower quality, volume manufacturers almost universally used chop strand mat in their layups which is much less strong than orientated matting - hence needed to use more of it. You only have to look at race boats to see that producing heavy can be cheap, boat materials tend to be quite cheap weight for weight so it is perfectly possible to build a cheap boat that is heavier and weaker than a stronger, more expensive one. Hence quoting the fact that Bavarias weigh more than HR's is irrelevant unless we understand what the weight is. Spraying in lots of extra CSM "just in case" is quicker and cheaper than a careful handlay .
Click to expand...
I'm amazed that this needed pointing out, but thank you for taking the time to do so.
 
snooks said:
Do you actually read the post I was replying to and you subsequently quoted from? From some of your previous rants I'm guessing not.

I felt it was important to test the GT35 because it was British and the first boat from a new company. I didn't say that being British it tugged on my patriotic heart strings, I went teary eyed and thought it's the best boat in the world...It's country of origin hasn't skewed my opinion on it in the slightest. But if you'd taken the time to read the test you would know that.

Speaking of the test....Have you actually read the test in this month's Yachting Monthly?

OK if not the test....Have you actually been onboard the GT35? No?

If not, what are you basing your prejudices on exactly?

The views of a lot of people who have never set foot on board her either? Or maybe it's just the price?

Do you find it hard to understand how something can cost so much more than something that looks the same? No matter how many man hours, how skilled the labour, how much thicker the wood, how clever the ideas etc etc, that all means nothing, after all you could if you were so inclined buy Varianta 37 for 1/3 of the price.

Have you been on a Varianta/Hanse/Beneteau/Legeng/Jeanneau/Dehler/Arcona/Dufour/Hallberg Rassy/Najad/Rustler/Bavaria/Allures/Elan/Winner/Sunbeam/Contest etc etc etc in order to make an informed opinion? Have you been around all those manufacturers factories to see the difference in how those boats are constructed?

Did a GT35 run over your dog or something? :)
Click to expand...
Some people seem to take offence at the notion that people who produce a quality product should expect to earn a decent living from doing so.
 
I applaud anything that is made in the Uk; i truly do - i and all of my family are in manufacturing one way of another, furniture, construction etc but this design just doesn't excite me, as shallow as that sounds and Steven Jones has drawn some awesome boats over the years, that is the basis of my prejudice - it looks f**kin boring and the interior very cheap looking and that is why many will pass this by especially when viewed in context of price.

To be particularly crawl - and it was the first thing that came to mind when i first clapped eyes on this boat - was....

"1991 called they want their boat back"
 
rogerball0 said:
I applaud anything that is made in the Uk; i truly do - i and all of my family are in manufacturing one way of another, furniture, construction etc but this design just doesn't excite me, as shallow as that sounds and Steven Jones has drawn some awesome boats over the years, that is the basis of my prejudice - it looks f**kin boring and the interior very cheap looking and that is why many will pass this by especially when viewed in context of price.

To be particularly crawl - and it was the first thing that came to mind when i first clapped eyes on this boat - was....

"1991 called they want their boat back"
Click to expand...

I think that pretty much sums it up! :encouragement:
 
snooks said:
Do you actually read the post I was replying to and you subsequently quoted from? From some of your previous rants I'm guessing not.

I felt it was important to test the GT35 because it was British and the first boat from a new company. I didn't say that being British it tugged on my patriotic heart strings, I went teary eyed and thought it's the best boat in the world...It's country of origin hasn't skewed my opinion on it in the slightest. But if you'd taken the time to read the test you would know that.
Click to expand...

Testing it is fine. I was replying to a post in which you said you had "another reason to big up the home grown boat and wave the union flag". That doesn't sound like impartial reviewing to me, and I think it's fair to ask if you generally try to "big up" British built boats.

Speaking of the test....Have you actually read the test in this month's Yachting Monthly?
Click to expand...

Yes. I thought it was interesting, and I was actually quite impressed that you sounded underwhelmed by the interior.

OK if not the test....Have you actually been onboard the GT35? No?
Click to expand...

Of course not. I'm relying on your review, which had assumed was impartial.

Do you find it hard to understand how something can cost so much more than something that looks the same? No matter how many man hours, how skilled the labour, how much thicker the wood, how clever the ideas etc etc, that all means nothing, after all you could if you were so inclined buy Varianta 37 for 1/3 of the price.
Click to expand...

I have already covered that. Hand-made products made in small quantities - whether boats, cars, aircraft, hi-fi or loaves of bread - will always cost more that mass produced items. It doesn't necessarily mean that the quality is any better, either. In fact, the opposite can be true because mass production is capable of achieving very accurate results - often far better than hours of manual labour.

Did a GT35 run over your dog or something? :)
Click to expand...

I have nothing against the GT35. I just think that a quarter of a million pounds is rather a lot extra to pay for extra light switches and, wonder of wonders, plastic clips to keep the cushions in place.
 
AndrewfromFal said:
Some people seem to take offence at the notion that people who produce a quality product should expect to earn a decent living from doing so.
Click to expand...

Nobody has the right to "expect" to earn a living from producing anything. If GT can find customers who think it's worth paying that much, good luck to the, If they can't, they have only themselves to blame.
 
JumbleDuck said:
…and, wonder of wonders, plastic clips to keep the cushions in place.
Click to expand...

Ah, but they're not just any plastic clips, you know.:)

My concern, I must admit, at some remove, is that having set out to build an HR competitor with the GT35, the company now seems to want to build a J competitor with the GT33. That doesn't seem to say 'single-minded purpose to succeed', rather 'we're not sure what we're doing, so we're hedging our bets'.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Oh.

I thought boat reviews were supposed to report on the boats as tested, and not to reflect a desire to "big up" a particular maker's products. What sort of score would you have given the GT35 if she had been build in France or Germany? Can we now assume that all foreign built yachts are marked down for insufficient Britishness?
Click to expand...





Don't you....

now and again....

just feel a little bit......

of a Silly Billy?
 
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