JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
So "modern thinking" is space at the expense of comfort, contents, style or use? Is this "modern thinking"?
YM test of GT35
- Thread starter eddystone
- Start date
So "modern thinking" is space at the expense of comfort, contents, style or use? Is this "modern thinking"?
dom
Well-Known Member
I didn't know you sailed a Wally Mr Duck!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Like a wally, dear boy, I sail like a wally.
doris
Well-Known Member
So "modern thinking" is space at the expense of comfort, contents, style or use? Is this "modern thinking"?
Always wanted to be able to take the lift to the top of the mast!
SimonD
Well-Known Member
I'm not qualified to comment on the GT's sailing qualities, but the price is so eye watering, it got me thinking. Why not buy a second hand boat of your choice (mine would be a Moody 35, but I'm biased) for say £50k. Then hand it over to a decent yard with a cheque for another £100k. Wouldn't you get back a boat that to all intents and purposes was brand new, i.e. new engine, systems, rigging, sails, upholstery, stripped and varnished woodwork etc. If so, you can trouser the remaining £150k+ that you would have spent on a GT35. Sure, you'll never get that £100k back, but what price depreciation?
sailorman
Well-Known Member
an Oyster 47 would be cheaper but more maintenance
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That may be a viable approach. There was a series of articles in Yachting World last year by somebody doing just that with HRs on the basis that new prices have rocketed so much and there are well worn but sound older boats around that could be completely refurbished for much less than new.
However, I think the danger is in getting carried away, bit like house renovations and if you were not very careful about the boat you chose you could also end up with a boat you could not sell if you had to.
pvb
Well-Known Member
The problem, as ever, is resale value. Replace the teak deck properly on say a 39ft HR, and you're probably looking at the thick end of £35K. Repaint the stripes properly, and there's another £5K or so. Replace the engine, another £15K or so. You don't get that money back on resale, although of course it might make the boat easier to sell.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
How much do you lose on a GT35 when you sail it off the forecourt? £100k?
Billy_Mizzen
Well-Known Member
Yes but Jeanneau's and Bavaria's have adhesive bonded structural grids, loads of internal liner mouldings, grp head linings, crappy wiring looms and bulkheads stuck in with Sika etc... At least the GT is built by craftsmen, with a decent glassed in structure, quality instrumentation, tank monitoring etc. Does it warrant £300k, maybe not, but not really comparable to a churned out Euro tub.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Very true in most cases, but the guy had bought a much bigger one - think it was a 49 for not a lot of money essentially to get the basic structure and the name. He then filled it with modern gear. As with buying project houses you have to look at the potential end value, minus the cost of getting it there and that sets the buying price. That calculation rules out most older boats. You also have to look at your own plans and if, for example you are looking at a 10 year post retirement project you might have different expectations.
Simondjuk
Well-Known Member
Maybe they're as you say now, but my '99 Bav has a glassed in grid; wiring, rope holding gear, plumbing and fuel lines to ISO and Germanischer Lloyd standards, glassed in bulkheads and no internal liner mouldings besides in the heads. A place which, as far as I can tell, has more charisma than the entire interior of the GT.
Yes, it has a GRP headlining. The white provides some relief from the darkness of the mahogany elsewhere. It's also rather practical.
Mine for £53K less change.
pvb
Well-Known Member
The fact that they're not traditionally built doesn't necessarily mean that they're badly built. Times change; technology progresses; new methods are developed. Internal liner mouldings aren't new, and aren't necessarily a problem. Wiring looms are an interesting point - I understand that many AWBs use a standard loom, regardless of options selected, so it's easy to retrofit equipment, so I wouldn't describe that as "crappy". New AWBs also have quality instrumentation (eg Garmin for Bavaria, B&G for Jeanneau) and they have tank monitoring, etc. If you look at the YouTube video of Bavaria's production system, for example, you can't fail to be impressed by the precision and quality of the whole process. I look forward to seeing a video of Windboats' production system.
Simondjuk
Well-Known Member
Actually, that's a good point. We also have tank monitoring. You press the button and the funkily retro segmented LED display shows the contents. What more does anyone need, besides perhaps a system which sends one an MMS when nearing 25% capacity. Although, that'd better employed to alert one to a diminishing drinks cabinet stock, I'd say.
Border Terrier
Well-Known Member
"Few" being the relevant word.
AndrewfromFal
Well-Known Member
The fact they've put a video of their build process online means nothing. Many years ago (early 1990s) I saw a video of the production process for the MacGregor 26 and it was lightyears ahead of anything I'd seen in a European Boatyard, in terms of production line techniques, use of jigs etc and it looked extremely impressive. The quality of the delivered product was pretty shocking however....which goes to show that a video doesn't really give you any indication of the actual quality of the build and Comment #35 would seem indicate that Bavaria are a lot more impressive on film than in reality.
Windboats on the other hand, have a reputation for high quality based on actual customer experience, rather than a dog and pony show on Youtube.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Bavaria quality has generally improved in recent years. And I'd hardly call their production video a "dog and pony show"! Check it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-uj-4gmREg
AndrewfromFal
Well-Known Member
My point is it's a video, that is all it is. You assert the quality has improved, but what is this based on, and from when? - The Bavarias I saw in the early nineties were far better built than anything that they've produced since then. Also, how do you square this assertion with the comment previously posted about the owner of a new Bav 36 not being able to use his fairleads for fear of pulling the toe rail out?
pvb
Well-Known Member
Current Bavarias are extremely well built, at least as good as the mainstream French offerings, and in some respects even better. They're quite heavily built too, surprisingly. And, of course, they seem to stand up to the rigours of charter use exceptionally well. There are loads of Bavaria owners on these forums who will testify to their satisfaction with their boats, yet there are also lots of Bavaria-knockers who repeatedly criticise the boats. Strangely, the mainstream French boats don't seem to come in for anywhere near the same level of criticism. Bavaria have used exceptional production engineering prowess to produce large numbers of good value boats, and they deserve a bit more recognition for this.
AndrewfromFal
Well-Known Member
You say 'extremely well built' and then you say 'at least as good as the mainstream French offerings'. - Since when did they become the benchmark of extreme high quality? I refer back again to comment #35; since when did a toerail attached with self tappers count as extremely high quality?
Or are you merely basing your analysis on the way the boats are engineered for ease of assembly - as this seemed to be the tenet of your previous post.
I wouldn't want one myself, and I have no problem with people who like them, but what started this exchange was that you somehow seemed to imply that Bavarias production system creates boats that are superior to those that come out of the shed at Windboats.
