Yet another gas locker thread... sorry

[galeus]

We have 2- 13 kg Propane gas bottles housed in a aluminium, open topped, drain down, welded gas locker we had made locally. We have a bubble leak tester within the locker and a Gasafe regulator which has a guage which can tell you if you have a leak between the regulator/gas bottle and the bubble leak detector, which we did have this year.
Every year I test the drain down facility with a bucket of water and test for water leaks with my hand. Also a dual channel gas sniffer and a bilge mounted IKEA gas sniffer (either 12v or 240v). I should add we have a gas water heater, gas fridge, gas cooker and Propex heater. My wifes nose does work better than any gas sniffer though we are thinking of getting a canary next year.
Richard

 

[Boo2]

I bought one of these for £119.95 from http://www.force4.co.uk/339/Force-4-Gas-Bottle-Locker.html
...
Easy to fit and it seals.

Really ? That's not what it says on the Force4 website you linked to : "Ventilation is via a gap under the bottom edge of the door" ?

Boo2

 

[Quandary]

Looks nice, but might not pass a critical surveyor's examination. Side-opening lockers are supposed to have gas-tight doors, but the link he gave said that the door is vented by a gap. Also, braided hoses are generally unapproved, as their condition can't be checked.

Not strictly true, braided flexible hose to type 2 of BS 3212 is accepted though I prefer the naked .orange stuff as it is easier to inspect and you can use jubilee clips rather than compression fittings. One of the local inspectors would expect naked cooker hose to be changed to braided though he was happy with the orange stuff in the gas locker, it is not a good idea to argue too much with them. The date on the braided hose should be on the tag at the end and most inspectors will urge replacement after about 5 years, similar with the naked stuff. If anyone wants an 8mm braided cooker hose I have one compete with brass compression fittings which I bought this year prior to my inspection but opted not to use, when I rechecked the very comprehensive and detailed Boat Safety Scheme Guide. Tenner to RNLI. (The chandlery at Ardfern is very good but they are still convinced that armoured hose must be used for the Boat Safety Scheme.)
The guide is not expensive and it is worth going through the very extensive check lists even if you are not subject to the inspection.

 

[Tranona]

Not strictly true, braided flexible hose to type 2 of BS 3212 is accepted though I prefer the naked .orange stuff as it is easier to inspect and you can use jubilee clips rather than compression fittings.

That is correct - both are acceptable. In my new installation the installer advised the use of braided because the hose runs under the edge of a stainless steel heat shield and there is potential for chafe. As he was issuing the certificate I took his advice.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

Boat Safety Scheme manual is available online as a download. It contains excellent information on building a gas locker, which could be in GRP, ply composite or metal. I prefer a gas locker to have a top access, and in the cockpit rather than in the cabin.

 

[KevO]

Boat Safety Scheme manual is available online as a download. It contains excellent information on building a gas locker, which could be in GRP, ply composite or metal. I prefer a gas locker to have a top access, and in the cockpit rather than in the cabin.

Yes, that's what I want too...

 

[ghostlymoron]

This is extracted from the Hurley owners site
'The following is a brief list of details that a good gas system should include:

The gas bottle should be stored, secured upright in a locker;
The gas locker should be drained from the bottom and vented at the top outside the hull;
The drain skin fitting should be at least 75mm above the waterline even when the vessel is healed over;
The drain hose should have a continuous fall and be at least 19mm internal diameter;
The gas locker should be dedicated for gas bottle use only;
The flexible hose should be no longer than 1m. Copper pipe should be used, not flexible hose for longer runs;
The gas bottle regulator and the join between the flexible hose at the bottle end and the copper pipe should be made within the gas bottle locker as if the gas system leaks it will most likely be at these points;
The copper gas pipe should be secured to the vessels structure at intervals of no more than 300mm;
The copper gas pipe should be protected by conduit where it goes through a bulkhead or piece of joinery to reduce fracture and chaff;
Feeble hose should not be fed through a bulkhead;
A gas shut off tap should be fitted into the galley if more than one gas appliance is present;
Armoured flexible hose should be used at the cooker end if the cooker is gimbled to reduce chaffing.'
The full details are available HERE
Sound advice from Nick Vass

 

[JoeQ]

Could you use a gas bottle from a forklift that has a built in contents guage? They lie on their side.

 

[pvb]

Could you use a gas bottle from a forklift that has a built in contents guage? They lie on their side.

Why? They have to be horizontal, so would need to be installed fore and aft in a sailboat.

 

[Wandering Star]

Sorry to reincarnate this thread but it seems to cover my own queries quite comprehensively. The locker from Force 4 would seem to be my favored solution but I'd like an opinion on the already mentioned fact the locker appears to drain through the unsealed bottom dor edge. My boat presently has no gas on board or storage facilities at all.

In my case that means that any gas spillage would drain directly into my cockpit which has 2 cockpit drains, is this satisfactory? I would have thought so in practice, but maybe not so for the gas compliancy H&S peeps?

For the sake of compliance, could I treat my cockpit as an enlarged gas locker and fit a separate cockpit drain overboard using thin tube and exiting above the waterline?

Thanks for any advice?

Cheers, Brian.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Hi Brian

Yes mine does have the drains in the bottom of the door which will come into my cockpit 'if' a leak, however the cockpit is normally 'open' unless I have my cover over it when I leave the boat, but as any cover it's not 100% air tight anyway and on my check list switch the gas off when I am not onboard or even when I am not using it.

You will also note there is also an additional isolation switch 'after' the gas bottle before the gas Monitor.

However as a back up I also fitted a 3/4" dia drain from the 'back bottom of the gas locker' piped downwards direct overboard outside the boat (above the waterline) as recommended by the BSC.

Since installing it last year I have not had any problems and physicaly check the gas leak detector at least once a month.

Mike

 

[lw395]

Is This what you need ?

Sorry, but...
Wouldn't touch that with someone else's stick.
Gas will leak out of the top of that if anything goes wrong.
Even if the majority of it goes down the drain, enough will come out of the top to blow up the boat.

 

[VicS]

Sorry to reincarnate this thread but it seems to cover my own queries quite comprehensively. The locker from Force 4 would seem to be my favored solution but I'd like an opinion on the already mentioned fact the locker appears to drain through the unsealed bottom dor edge. My boat presently has no gas on board or storage facilities at all.

In my case that means that any gas spillage would drain directly into my cockpit which has 2 cockpit drains, is this satisfactory? I would have thought so in practice, but maybe not so for the gas compliancy H&S peeps?

For the sake of compliance, could I treat my cockpit as an enlarged gas locker and fit a separate cockpit drain overboard using thin tube and exiting above the waterline?

Thanks for any advice?

Cheers, Brian.

It could only be considered satisfactory if the cockpit drain exits are always above the water line and if the boat design does not allow gas to flow from the cockpit into the interior. Otherwise you need a gas locker which is gas tight to above the top of the bottle and regulator with an overboard drain

 

[lw395]

Sorry to reincarnate this thread but it seems to cover my own queries quite comprehensively. The locker from Force 4 would seem to be my favored solution but I'd like an opinion on the already mentioned fact the locker appears to drain through the unsealed bottom dor edge. My boat presently has no gas on board or storage facilities at all.

In my case that means that any gas spillage would drain directly into my cockpit which has 2 cockpit drains, is this satisfactory? I would have thought so in practice, but maybe not so for the gas compliancy H&S peeps?

For the sake of compliance, could I treat my cockpit as an enlarged gas locker and fit a separate cockpit drain overboard using thin tube and exiting above the waterline?

Thanks for any advice?

Cheers, Brian.

I don't think it's acceptable to consider the cockpit as a gas locker, you might just theoretically get a fairly gas rich mixture there in the event of a spillage. Many cockpits have electrical stuff like autopilots, and of course it's not unknown for people to smoke in the cockpit, even if we don't allow it on our boats, you should probably design for the worst reasonable case.
Electrical sparks seem unlikely, but think about the case when someone is changing the bottle at night, I know not all my torches are 'explosive atmosphere rated'.
Gas spillages do happen, you get the odd spoiled thread on a cylinder for instance.

 

[VicS]

I'd recommend reading the Boat Safety Scheme Chapter7

The relevant part relating to side opening gas lockers and cockpits is probably paragraph 7.2.4 which says :

If the effectiveness of side-opening cylinder locker door seals cannot
be verified, or if cylinders are stored in cylinder housings, then the
arrangements of a self-draining cockpit must be as follows:
n the height of cockpit drain outlet(s) must be above normal laden
waterline; and,
n the cockpit must be LPG-tight to the interior of the vessel at least
to a height equal to that of the height of the top of the LPG cylinder
valves and other high-pressure components where these are located
higher; and,
n hatches or openings, and associated seals, gaskets, below the
height of the LPG cylinder valves and other high-pressure
components where these are located higher must be free of signs
of damage or deterioration.

 

[Rossynant]

+ 1 , and simply speaking: better to make a partition of cockpit locker, drained and ventilated outboard (or to stern), or to buy a kind of ready made container that is put down into deck. With drain to connect to through-hull.