Yachts easy way to bring in migrants - ex-smuggler

[potentillaCO32]

I think if it happens it happens on a tiny scale.
If someone organised to do it then their regular movements would be picked up pretty quickly.

 

[dgadee]

A decade ago I called into Dover. I was told that a group of Chinese immigrants had been told to get the bus to London. They all stood at the same bus stop. Easily picked up. Maybe things haven't changed.

Note, though, that Scotland wants immigration. You English won't let the Scots implement their own controls.

 

[xyachtdave]

There's an interesting video on You Tube by East Coast Sailing about a late season trip from Ramsgate to Gravelines, retuning the following day. I watched to learn about the paperwork formalities now required.

His boat was stopped and searched as soon as he arrived back in Ramsgate, lots of questioning about why he'd sailed to France and back in 24 hours.

The suggestion in the article that it would be a easy to drop off a load of migrants in Ramsgate in the busy season and they'd all wonder off unnoticed up the pontoon is laughable.

 

[Sea Change]

One interesting thing about the article is that it shines a light on just how complex immigration is.
'Immigrants' comprise a very diverse range of people. Students and workers on visas. Black economy workers. Tourists and others entering visa free. Asylum seekers. Then there are the dependents, or family members who might have different status.

The complexity of the subject is precisely why you need to be suspicious of anybody who thinks there are easy and obvious answers.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Indeed. Last time I sailed back from france we were stopped and questioned by the cutter based in ramsgate. They didn't didn't board but no doubt would have if we hadn't answered questions sensibly.

We then berthed in the visitors berths next to where they tie up in ramsgate.

 

[Aardee]

Marina staff are regularly visited by Border Force staff who encourage them to report unusual boat movements, strangers hanging around the place, unusually large crews or packages arriving etc.

 

[johnalison]

One interesting thing about the article is that it shines a light on just how complex immigration is.
'Immigrants' comprise a very diverse range of people. Students and workers on visas. Black economy workers. Tourists and others entering visa free. Asylum seekers. Then there are the dependents, or family members who might have different status.

The complexity of the subject is precisely why you need to be suspicious of anybody who thinks there are easy and obvious answers.

The question of immigration is indeed complicated, and outside the scope of the forum rules. However, the question of what is illegal is pretty simple, and, whether drugs, booze or immigrants, the answers given here are mostly of one mind.

 

[xyachtdave]

Indeed. Last time I sailed back from france we were stopped and questioned by the cutter based in ramsgate. They didn't didn't board but no doubt would have if we hadn't answered questions sensibly.

We then berthed in the visitors berths next to where they tie up in ramsgate.

We were approached and contacted on Ch16 at North Foreland by one of Border Force boats in December a few years back.

We were in the process of dropping a spinnaker when the radio burst into life and in fairness to them they said 'We can see you've got your hands full at the moment but can you call us when you can please,'.

I guess they were curious as to what we were up to bouncing around North Foreland on a freezing cold December day in a 'pleasure' vessel.

 

[Habebty]

All I can add is they must have some monster binos on those border force cutters. Before I had AIS they called me up on the VHF by boat name yet the cutter itself was barely visible on the horizon. I had just come Ostende singlehanded and they kept me on the radio a fair while.

 

[doug748]

Indeed. Last time I sailed back from france we were stopped and questioned by the cutter based in ramsgate. They didn't didn't board but no doubt would have if we hadn't answered questions sensibly.

We then berthed in the visitors berths next to where they tie up in ramsgate.

We were questioned in Scilly about 20 years ago so it was a thing, even then. When the formalities were over the coppers explained that Scilly was being scrutinised as an easy dropping off point for illegal immigration.

Speaking more widely our finest seem to love to chase easy pickings, the middle class and generally law abiding people rather than looking out of the window at the beach.

.

 

[dgadee]

We were questioned in Scilly about 20 years ago so it was a thing, even then. When the formalities were over the coppers explained that Scilly was being scrutinised as an easy dropping off point for illegal immigration.

Speaking more widely our finest seem to love to chase easy pickings, the middle class and generally law abiding people rather than looking out of the window at the beach.

.

Not easy pickings. Just groupthink.

Years ago in NI we drove a Volvo and were never stopped at security check points. I said to my wife, if I wanted to blow up something I would use a Volvo. Sure enough, two were driven in to a barracks and exploded.

Edit: BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Army attack accused goes on trial

 

[Boathook]

Interesting development in Cherbourg.

Take care in channel ports.

 

[ylop]

Speaking more widely our finest seem to love to chase easy pickings, the middle class and generally law abiding people rather than looking out of the window at the beach.

They are not mutually exclusive and inspecting “middle class generally law abiding people” has two purposes: 1. It keeps them (and their sailing club/forum) friends conscious of the rules and risk of checks and thus makes it much less likely someone deviates from the rules; 2. It means the person tell all their both sailing and non-sailing friends that they got inspected, so there’s a belief that something is being done.

 

[doug748]

They are not mutually exclusive and inspecting “middle class generally law abiding people” has two purposes: 1. It keeps them (and their sailing club/forum) friends conscious of the rules and risk of checks and thus makes it much less likely someone deviates from the rules; 2. It means the person tell all their both sailing and non-sailing friends that they got inspected, so there’s a belief that something is being done.

Maybe. I suggest they are just looking busy and few people will be fooled.

Perhaps they have Lord Nelson's telescope.

.

 

[Sailing steve]

They are not mutually exclusive and inspecting “middle class generally law abiding people” has two purposes: 1. It keeps them (and their sailing club/forum) friends conscious of the rules and risk of checks and thus makes it much less likely someone deviates from the rules; 2. It means the person tell all their both sailing and non-sailing friends that they got inspected, so there’s a belief that something is being done.

That's all very true but a significant problem lies within the difference of making people believe that something is being done rather than actually doing it.

The former is far easier to achieve than the later and whenever the belief that something is being done is questioned or proved wrong the smoke and mirrors mushroom factory scenario immediately comes to mind proving the populace are intentionally being kept in the dark and fed a load of s#it, and that situation is detrimental to all.

 

[potentillaCO32]

That's all very true but a significant problem lies within the difference of making people believe that something is being done rather than actually doing it.

The former is far easier to achieve than the later and whenever the belief that something is being done is questioned or proved wrong the smoke and mirrors mushroom factory scenario immediately comes to mind proving the populace are intentionally being kept in the dark and fed a load of s#it, and that situation is detrimental to all.

Well there is no evidence that there is any problem here. The scrot who mentioned this in the BBC interview got caught and banged up for it and there is no credible evidence of hordes of migrants walking off marinas.
I think organised criminal using yachts stand out like a sore thumb due to regularity and traffic monitoring and non crimes wouldn't take the risk or even think of doing it.

 

[Stemar]

That's all very true but a significant problem lies within the difference of making people believe that something is being done rather than actually doing it.

The former is far easier to achieve than the later and whenever the belief that something is being done is questioned or proved wrong the smoke and mirrors mushroom factory scenario immediately comes to mind proving the populace are intentionally being kept in the dark and fed a load of s#it, and that situation is detrimental to all.

What we see is, as Ylop says, to keep us on our toes. What we don't see is the bit that matters, the intelligence-led stuff that got Scrote banged up.

Dgadee's Chinese people waiting at the bus stop wasn't very bright, but I do wonder if the traffickers minded that much. After all, they've paid once. If they want to come back, they'll have to pay again. If they haven't paid yet, they'll still have to. "We know where your family lives, it'd be a shame id anything happened to them..."

 

[Sailing steve]

Well there is no evidence that there is any problem here. The scrot who mentioned this in the BBC interview got caught and banged up for it and there is no credible evidence of hordes of migrants walking off marinas.
I think organised criminal using yachts stand out like a sore thumb due to regularity and traffic monitoring and non crimes wouldn't take the risk or even think of doing it.

Yeahbutt in this particular case you only read about said scrotes who are apprehended bringing contraband or people into the country they shouldn't, and when they are caught it makes all the headlines and gets everybody's approval with self-congratulatory pats on the back all round.

If I was contemplating bringing anything or anybody that I shouldn't into the country it certainly wouldn't be via any brightly lit marina with night security staff and 24/7 CCTV, it'd be at the top of a remote muddy creek under the cover of darkness and nobody can say how much of that is occurring because nobody in authority actually knows.

Or if anybody in authority does know they'll certainly be keeping very quiet about it because admitting it's occurring and failing to stop it will make all the headlines for the wrong reasons rather than the right ones.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Yeahbutt in this particular case you only read about said scrotes who are apprehended bringing contraband or people into the country they shouldn't, and when they are caught it makes all the headlines and gets everybody's approval with self-congratulatory pats on the back all round.

If I was contemplating bringing anything or anybody that I shouldn't into the country it certainly wouldn't be via any brightly lit marina with night security staff and 24/7 CCTV, it'd be at the top of a remote muddy creek under the cover of darkness and nobody can say how much of that is occurring because nobody in authority actually knows.

Or if anybody in authority does know they'll certainly be keeping very quiet about it because admitting it's occurring and failing to stop it will make all the headlines for the wrong reasons rather than the right ones.

I think they do know. When I crossed from Dover heading to dieppe last I took a few wee degrees liberties with the TSS crossing at 90 rule, as you do, and got a call from channel VTS it's who said they could see me oth on radar and AIS. I told them I was going as close to 90 as I could and they were fine. But it shows that the authorities have a very good idea of who is crossing the channel. I would think absence of AIS would attract more interest.
You might get away with it once but would get caught very quickly in my view. Even if going to a muddy essex creek.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I was driving through a quiet seaside town at around 7 o'clock on a Sunday morning, apparently no one around, when I got flagged down by a man standing in the middle of the road waving his arms around. He was Chinese, and all of a sudden 4 or 5 other Chinese men appeared from different directions. They all got into my car before I could stop them, and one handed me a piece of paper with lots of Chinese writing, plus the words "Victoria Station" , and gestured that they wanted me to drive them there.

I started shouting, got them out of my car, and phoned the police, who fortunately turned up within a couple of minutes and took them all away, though presumably not to Victoria Station.

Exactly how they got to the town I don't know, although an unknown RIB was reported close off the beach the previous afternoon.