Yachts detained in Greece by Port Police. Help needed.

[Chris_Robb]

Over the last few years I have seen on this forum a number of yachts that have been detained by Port Police following a breakdown and being towed into port.

Last year there were 2 incidents that I know of, One in Kalini and one in Neapolis.

Over winter I have done some research on this, with both the British Consulate in Athens and the Greek Government. Initially I believed that it was the British embassy giving incorrect instruction to Port Police and this may still be the case. The authorities seem to think that this is not important as there have been few if any arrests recently. I need to know what the extent is of these events.

I have now tracked down someone - reasonably high up, who is prepared to look at the issue having drawn a blank earlier.

SO

I need to hear from any one who has had this experience as it will help our case to cite specifics.

Please would you reply - here on the forum, as well as pinging me a PM with your contact details.

 

[lfabio]

Would you mind expanding a bit on what actually happened?

This is not awfully reassuring.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Would you mind expanding a bit on what actually happened?

This is not awfully reassuring.

Here is a thread from last year.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...ort-Police-Incident-Bureaucracy-or-Corruption

Yes - the guy was silly to run out of fuel - but he learnt his lesson.

We are trying to get a change in the law to allow UK yachts to self certify themselves in accordance with standard UK practice.

 

[lfabio]

Even for Greece, this seems very, very far-fetched.

The connection between 'asking to be towed into port' and 'requiring an engineer to recertify the boat as safe to sail' is at the very least not a given and, realistically, actually quite rare.

Furthermore, this is doubly problematic for foreign flagged yachts, which of course have to comply with their own country's regulations - not Greece's.

On top of this, the unintended consequence - don't ask for help unless the deck is already 4' below water and you're hanging onto the mast with VHF in hand - is a disaster waiting to happen.

I can't really see any way to qualify this positively. It seems like (another) case of the kind of bureaucracy that doesn't help anyone (I'm feeling particularly generous today - the first draft had different wording). The last time I sailed in Greek waters was 1992 and this is not exactly encouraging me to visit again.

Edited to add: reading a few threads on this forum and others was an unwelcome wake up call. I will stand by my original statement and the same sentiment has certainly been expressed by many others, but it's certainly not uncommon. Oh well, one lives and one learns.

 

[sailaboutvic]

This is one of the worst case of ripping people off in greece , there no doubt the Greeks are very good at finding way to get money to line there pocket , in all the years I have sailed around greece this is what I found works for me , but don't hold me respondable if you find yourself locked up .
Each time I had a run in with PP and there been a few times now first stage is smiling and being very nice and trying to sort the problem out. , next stage quote some british and greek laws ( so learn some it helps ) last stage start to get upset and follow that by asking to speak to a officer , it at this point I find they normal back down and get rid of me or sort the problem out .
Has I said if it back fires on you don't call me .

 

[RobbieW]

Chris, I'm aware of a british boat that had to be pulled off the sand outside Preveza last year. That attracted the PP and the owner ended up with a survey bill before they'd let him leave - I could probably put you in touch if you PM me an email address. Good initiative btw, thanks - anecdotally, the Germans are reputed to already have the self certifying agrrement with the Greek authorities.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Chris, I'm aware of a british boat that had to be pulled off the sand outside Preveza last year. That attracted the PP and the owner ended up with a survey bill before they'd let him leave - I could probably put you in touch if you PM me an email address. Good initiative btw, thanks - anecdotally, the Germans are reputed to already have the self certifying agrrement with the Greek authorities.

PM being sent

 

[Chris_Robb]

A forumite called RAVI posted his experiences last autumn on the experience of a member of the syndicate of his boat. Does anyone know RAVI or his where abouts? The thread he posted was here

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...ort-Police-Incident-Bureaucracy-or-Corruption

I had an interesting comment from a senior Coast Guard - that Flagged states were responsible for their own yachts - interesting..........

 

[lfabio]

'flagged states were responsible for their own yachts'?

That is to say, if I fly a US flag, the US coast guard is responsible for coming to my aid in, say, New Zealand or, for that matter, Greece?

 

[1bobt]

I had my boat impounded in Finikas 4 years ago .I was dis-masted it cost 1500euro for surveyors fees and they never came on the boat.lol

 

[Chris_Robb]

'flagged states were responsible for their own yachts'?

That is to say, if I fly a US flag, the US coast guard is responsible for coming to my aid in, say, New Zealand or, for that matter, Greece?

No, It just means that the Laws of the flagged state prevail. ie a Coded British boat will have to abide by its rules, and non coded under 32 meter has no regulation attached. An Yanke vessel will have to abide by its flagged rules - what ever they are.

Italians are bound by the survey rule, and I understand the Italian embassy has to organise a surveyor.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I had my boat impounded in Finikas 4 years ago .I was dis-masted it cost 1500euro for surveyors fees and they never came on the boat.lol

ibobt - this is precisely the info I need. Yes with a dismasting I would expect you to have a survey, your insurers would require and pay for that. But the current interpretation requires that a Greek Registered surveyor dis required. The fact that he never set foot on the boat is also an important element of the scam element that this has generated, and it is important to get that across.

I will PM you with my contact details, as I would like you to do a rough affidavit on the incident, ie date, name of yacht - your name etc etc. Name of surveyor if you can remember it.

Thanks

 

[lfabio]

Oh! I see.

Well, as far as I know that is the only arrangement that international law allows - and it was what I was trying to point out in my prior post.

Not that this has kept several countries - Italy does come to mind - from doing otherwise...

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Happened to me a few years back, 5 or 6 years ago. A Benetau 38 was being delivered between Turkey and Malta. The engine broke down off Xania in Crete and was towed in by a fishing boat. The port police got wind of it and impounded the boat. The original skipper had to leave for personal reasons and the crew went too. I flew out as replacement. On reporting to the port police the first thing they asked to look at was our passports which they promptly took off us and said that the only way we were leaving the island was on the boat.

The engine fix was easy, just muck in the fuel. However, the port police wanted a survey done that the boat was safe to put to sea. A ship surveyor was called at great expense, took one look at the engine, asked for it to be started and that was it. He said that he had no experience of yacht engines.

The port police also noticed that the boat was still registered under the Turkish flag as the previous owner was Turkish. The new owner was Maltese and had not registered it yet. The police insisted that the boat must be re-registered as Maltese before it could leave. This is not easy in Crete, because it requires another survey by a surveyor approved by the shipping bit of the Maltese government. A Maltese surveyor had to be flown in - more delays and huge costs. The boat was surveyed, registered on the Maltese register, and we were all ready to go, but then they said we couldn't leave without a Maltese ensign. Imagine trying to find one of those in Crete! So more delay while one was posted from Malta.

Can we go now? Oh no. You only have your Yachtmaster certificate with you. We know what it is but don't recognise that as a qualification. We want to see an ICC. Fortunately I had one, but had not brought it with me from home in the haste to leave. Another 2 days while that was sent out by courier.

Finally, everything in place, and we were allowed to leave and they gave us our passports back.

In the harbour office there was a huge number of staff for a tiny port with a few fishing boats and some yachts. Their attitude seems to be to find all and every little rule infringement to prevent progress, and only tell you about the next problem after the resolution of the previous. I have no comprehension why they work like that, and I can't think of a more deserving government to go bankrupt. By comparison deliveries in Scandinavia and Northern Europe all seem to go without hitch, and if there are any problems or difficulties the authorities go out of their way to help and assist. They also seem to realize that doing small boat commercial deliveries is a tough pressurised job, give the skippers and crews respect, and co-operation and sometimes some help if required, not the Greek style buggerance and hindrance they seem to revel in.

 

[Max K]

Happened to me a few years back, 5 or 6 years ago. A Benetau 38 was being delivered between Turkey and Malta. The engine broke down off Xania in Crete and was towed in by a fishing boat. The port police got wind of it and impounded the boat. The original skipper had to leave for personal reasons and the crew went too. I flew out as replacement. On reporting to the port police the first thing they asked to look at was our passports which they promptly took off us and said that the only way we were leaving the island was on the boat.

The engine fix was easy, just muck in the fuel. However, the port police wanted a survey done that the boat was safe to put to sea. A ship surveyor was called at great expense, took one look at the engine, asked for it to be started and that was it. He said that he had no experience of yacht engines.

The port police also noticed that the boat was still registered under the Turkish flag as the previous owner was Turkish. The new owner was Maltese and had not registered it yet. The police insisted that the boat must be re-registered as Maltese before was could leave. This is not easy in Crete, because it requires another survey by a surveyor approved by the shipping bit of the Maltese marine government department. A Maltese surveyor had to be flown in - more delays and huge costs. The boat was surveyed, registered on the Maltese register, and we were all ready to go, but then they said we couldn't leave without a Maltese ensign. Imagine trying to find one of those in Crete! So more delay while one was posted from Malta.

Can we go now? Oh no. You only have your Yachtmaster certificate with you. We don't recognise that. We want to see an ICC. Fortunately I had one, but had not brought it with me in the haste to leave. Another 2 days while that was sent out by courier.

Finally, everything in place, and we were allowed to leave and they gave us our passports back.

In the harbour office there were a huge number of staff for a tiny port with a few fishing boats and some yachts. Their attitude seems to be to find all and every little rule to prevent progress, and only tell you about the next problem after the resolution of the previous. I have no comprehension why they work like that, and I can't think of a more deserving nation to go bankrupt. By comparison deliveries in Scandinavia and Northern Europe all seem to go without hitch, and if there are any problems or difficulties the authorities go out of their way to help and assist. They also seem to realize that small boat commercial deliveries is a tough job, give the skippers and crews respect, and co-operation and sometimes some help if required, not the Greek style buggerance and hindrance they seem to revel in.

Stoopid f....g country where everybody tries to prove how clever he is and how much beer he can consume while his country goes to the dogs.

Why have I just spent £4300 to keep my boat here for another 12 months?

Max.

 

[westernman]

Their attitude seems to be to find all and every little rule to prevent progress, and only tell you about the next problem after the resolution of the previous.

I had the same kind of thing 20 odd years ago in Germany when I was trying to re-register my French registered car (a Citroen which probably made things even worse) which I had bought 18 months before in France when I was resident there.

At the place for car registrations they said I had to have a customs document.

I go to customs. They give me a form to fill out which needs to be stamped by the car registration place.

I fill out the form and go to the car registration place.

I go back to customs who stamp something else.

I go back to the car registration place. They tell me the car has to go through the TUV for import (basically a souped up MOT).

I go the TUV - they tell me that I have to have a special document - basically a blank registration document.
The also tell me that the car will be very hard to get certified because it is French. I ask why. Well the headlights are the wrong colour. And anything else? Well umm ahh - don't know.

I go back to the registration place and get an empty registration document.

I take the yellow covers off my head light bulbs and go back to the TUV.
The TUV fails the car for some minor problem.
I go to a garage to get it fixed.

I go back to the TUV - they just want to see the garage bill - don't even bother looking at the car.
They then fill in some stuff on the empty car registration document (engine size etc).

I go back to the registration place, and they fill out the registration number.

I buy some number plates and go back to the TUV. They stick a TUV sticker to one of the registration plates.

I go back to the registtration place and they tell me the car has to be insured with a German insurance company.
I get the car insured.

I go back to the registration place again, they stamp the registration document and put stickers on both number plates.
I get the garage to fix the number plates to the car.

It took quite a few days off work and several weeks to get through altogether (during which time the French insurance expired, so the car was effictively uninsured for a couple of weeks as the French insurers would not renew as I was no longer French resident).

At no stage was any body prepared to explain to me the complete process. They would only say they needed this form or that.

Clearly you were not meant to register a French car in Germany.

The most expensive thing was the TUV which if I remember right was about 140 DM.
The number plates were 18 DM. The rest of the stuff was peanuts.
There was no import duty or any other taxes to pay apart from the yearly car tax which was a relatively small amount as it was a diesel car which was considered to be Umweltfreundlich at that time.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Stoopid f....g country where everybody tries to prove how clever he is and how much beer he can consume while his country goes to the dogs.

Why have I just spent £4300 to keep my boat here for another 12 months?

Max.

I think you mean Coffee.
I not sure why anyone spend £4300 on a berth unless they just use the boat now and then , last winter berthing fee was just over 800 euro including power and water .
Our mooring fee since we left in April is 22 euros so far . I know why I keep my boat here .
Don't blame greece or Turkey for prices going up , blame the bloody charter who come for a week or so and throw money around like no tomorrow leaving tips of 30% more then their meal they just had , or the yachtsmen's who when asked for 5 or 10 euros to moor up give anther 5 tips because it cheaper then the UK or Where ever else they came from , they are the ones to blame , for years these guys have been telling ever one they meet from people who repair boats to harbour staf how cheap it out here , now we are reaping what we had sow .

 

[Appleyard]

Stoopid f....g country where everybody tries to prove how clever he is and how much beer he can consume while his country goes to the dogs.

Why have I just spent £4300 to keep my boat here for another 12 months?

Max.

And you have the nerve to call the Greeks stupid?

 

[rivonia]

I had the same kind of thing 20 odd years ago in Germany when I was trying to re-register my French registered car (a Citroen which probably made things even worse) which I had bought 18 months before in France when I was resident there.

At the place for car registrations they said I had to have a customs document.

I go to customs. They give me a form to fill out which needs to be stamped by the car registration place.

I fill out the form and go to the car registration place.

I go back to customs who stamp something else.

I go back to the car registration place. They tell me the car has to go through the TUV for import (basically a souped up MOT).

I go the TUV - they tell me that I have to have a special document - basically a blank registration document.
The also tell me that the car will be very hard to get certified because it is French. I ask why. Well the headlights are the wrong colour. And anything else? Well umm ahh - don't know.

I go back to the registration place and get an empty registration document.

I take the yellow covers off my head light bulbs and go back to the TUV.
The TUV fails the car for some minor problem.
I go to a garage to get it fixed.

I go back to the TUV - they just want to see the garage bill - don't even bother looking at the car.
They then fill in some stuff on the empty car registration document (engine size etc).

I go back to the registration place, and they fill out the registration number.

I buy some number plates and go back to the TUV. They stick a TUV sticker to one of the registration plates.

I go back to the registtration place and they tell me the car has to be insured with a German insurance company.
I get the car insured.

I go back to the registration place again, they stamp the registration document and put stickers on both number plates.
I get the garage to fix the number plates to the car.

It took quite a few days off work and several weeks to get through altogether (during which time the French insurance expired, so the car was effictively uninsured for a couple of weeks as the French insurers would not renew as I was no longer French resident).

At no stage was any body prepared to explain to me the complete process. They would only say they needed this form or that.

Clearly you were not meant to register a French car in Germany.

The most expensive thing was the TUV which if I remember right was about 140 DM.
The number plates were 18 DM. The rest of the stuff was peanuts.
There was no import duty or any other taxes to pay apart from the yearly car tax which was a relatively small amount as it was a diesel car which was considered to be Umweltfreundlich at that time.

Nothing wrong with the above. That is normal. It is a similar proceedure in most countries.

 

[Tranona]

I think you mean Coffee.
I not sure why anyone spend £4300 on a berth unless they just use the boat now and then , last winter berthing fee was just over 800 euro including power and water .
Our mooring fee since we left in April is 22 euros so far . I know why I keep my boat here .
Don't blame greece or Turkey for prices going up , blame the bloody charter who come for a week or so and throw money around like no tomorrow leaving tips of 30% more then their meal they just had , or the yachtsmen's who when asked for 5 or 10 euros to moor up give anther 5 tips because it cheaper then the UK or Where ever else they came from , they are the ones to blame , for years these guys have been telling ever one they meet from people who repair boats to harbour staf how cheap it out here , now we are reaping what we had sow .

And you really think they value you as a visitor spending so little money compared with the thousands of tourists (of all sorts) than keep them alive?

Great for you to survive on so little, but please do not criticise others for spending their own money as they think fit - just as you choose the way in which you spend your own money.