yachtmaster

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the scenrio set was 5 knots with 10m vsibility ...... banging on a drum and missing the point.

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Then please take note of what has been said - 5 knots at 10m vis is too fast.

If a motorbike instructor told you to ride at 70 down a motorway - not a problem ... but if it was conjested and the rest of the traffic was crawling along at 10mph would you comply? no? then I suggest that is what you would go back to the instructor with - "I feel 5 knots is too fast in these conditions with 10m vis - a speed of x is more appropriate" This would earn you brownie points with an examiner for actually paying attention to what is being asked, rather than just doing as told ...
 
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Round & round & round & round...

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But are you doing 5knots as you go Round & round & round & round? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rick
 
we seem to have hit a
BrownBrickWall_tileable.jpg


Perhaps we were going too fast ??
 
"Then please take note of what has been said - 5 knots at 10m vis is too fast."

Now that is a nice clear statement and you sound like Gludy because that was my very first point...... I worked out the times and stated that a variable had to change, either the vis had to increase or speed drop. One instructor increased the vis to 20 to 30 metres, Powerskipper decreased the speed. Whilst I can agree with increasing the vis and buoy hopping (because I still have a speed decrease up my sleeve) I cannot agree that the slowing down changes much. Consider what the difference is slowing down to 2 knots .... and you would still hit the buoy, hence I would adapt the policy of not heading for any solid objects when vis was that low.... period.
 
"How in Gods name can anyone (even you...) find that unclear."

But that was my very opening remark because I pointed out that the warning time was too small. All you are doing is agreeing with what started all this. Please see my opening remarks where I worked out the warning time as 1.5 to 3 seconds.

However, when you slow down to even 2 knots - you still have problems ... see my other replies.
 
Fireball - its amazing me how you can claim a brick wall when i started the whole thing off with precise calculations and stated that was not enough warning time .... either the visibility had to increase or the speed decrease - however, you are far better off with a visibility increase than a speed decrease because of the reasons I have already explained.
 
Fireball - interesting how you resort to nursery images isntead of dealing with the issues ........ have you flipped yet? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
The 10' issue is irrelevant..... in 10m vis, you have 30', as you'd put someone on the bow......

So, what are we concluding here.....

That Gludy is right, if you could only see 10' past the bow, then buoy hopping would be a bit dangerous..... but he is wrong, as we are not talking about 10' past the bow, we are talking about 30'.....

Yes, in very very limited vis of 10' past the bow, find some safe water and drop the bleedin' hook...... but in 30', if you feel safe and confident to do so, then buoy hop.....

Personally, I would have no concerns about my ability to avoid a buoy with 30' notice......providing my speed is appropriate.... and I wouldn't do 5kts in that vis.....

Gludy you ought to try a bit of racing..... on the start line, 30' would be a bloody luxury.....
 
"The 10' issue is irrelevant..... in 10m vis, you have 30', as you'd put someone on the bow......"

Disagree.
I have already stated there would be someone on the bow but that is not the same as the hellsman seeing it and avoiding it.

The person on the bow would see it some 5 seconds before you and in that time has to convey the message, where it is etc - so there is still very little time left - you would at best be turning the wheel 6 seconds away from the buoy.

"So, what are we concluding here.....

That Gludy is right, if you could only see 10' past the bow, then buoy hopping would be a bit dangerous..... but he is wrong, as we are not talking about 10' past the bow, we are talking about 30'....."

This has already been discussed back in the thread, and has ben alloed for,

"Yes, in very very limited vis of 10' past the bow, find some safe water and drop the bleedin' hook"

That is all I have ver tried to say - I am pleased you agree.

"...... but in 30', if you feel safe and confident to do so, then buoy hop....."

I have agreed in 20 to 30 metres buoy hopping would be OK, I still think 30 foot is riky for reasons already outlines.

"Personally, I would have no concerns about my ability to avoid a buoy with 30' notice......providing my speed is appropriate.... and I wouldn't do 5kts in that vis....."


Then you agree with me again. It all started with being told 5 knots and 10 m vis - i then pointed out the time limiatation on this. So tank you, it is nice to have your support on the issues that the thread has been about.

"Gludy you ought to try a bit of racing..... on the start line, 30' would be a bloody luxury..... "

I have done it, that is dinghy racing - totally diiferent situation.


It fascinates me that I can point out that at the figures given 5 knots, 10 m visibility the situation is dangerous - some hundreds of messages later everyone seems to be telling me what I stated at the start!!!!!
 
This is my attempt at a summary of what I have learnt from this thread:-

1. The ability of some forumites to read a simple questions with accompanying facts is very limited and this leads to a huge waste of effort.

2. The ability to make assumptions by some is , as always, amazing ...... but it seems to be a great way of chipping in without any thought.

3. There now seems toi be general agreement that the original figures of 5 knots, 10m vis etc are dangerous. This was my very point.

4. This is where I have learnt by simply considering the facts - that even slowing down in that situation still leaves you in a dangerous position because with that comes lack of agility and still precious few seconds to take avoiding action. In that sort of vis, I would try to avoid buoy hopping or metting anything anywhere full stop. At 20m to 30m I would also buoy hop as the gain in confirming position is then balanced by the risk.

5. That most folks find that buoy hopping is practical by following contours providing there is realistic visibility.

6. That Brendan likes women with wet T-shirts on



.......... thats about it really. pity it took so long!
 
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