Aardee
Well-Known Member
Oops sorry. Yes, Powerskipper and Suncoast!!
yachtmaster
- Thread starter powerskipper
- Start date
Aardee
Well-Known Member
Great. Why waste your money on a Yachtmaster exam/ prep. You obviously bloody know it all anyway.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
"Gludy you ought to try a bit of racing..... on the start line, 30' would be a bloody luxury..... "
I have done it, that is dinghy racing - totally different situation.
[/ QUOTE ]Who mentioned dinghy racing?
I'm talking yachts here..... close quarter maneouvering....... often less than 2' between boats in the last few seconds....... biggest challenge is avoid rig clashes /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hear what you are saying about communications from the bow.... but you'd be prepared as you got close to where the mark was expected and ready to react.... wouldn't take 5 secs for helm to respond.....
"Gludy you ought to try a bit of racing..... on the start line, 30' would be a bloody luxury..... "
I have done it, that is dinghy racing - totally different situation.
[/ QUOTE ]Who mentioned dinghy racing?
I'm talking yachts here..... close quarter maneouvering....... often less than 2' between boats in the last few seconds....... biggest challenge is avoid rig clashes /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hear what you are saying about communications from the bow.... but you'd be prepared as you got close to where the mark was expected and ready to react.... wouldn't take 5 secs for helm to respond.....
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Sun_Coast - you agreed way back that 10m was a bit tight and that 20m to 30 m would be OK - we agreed on that, so how can you claim at any point that we disagreed? We agreed all the way it seems?
You increased vis over the original point but Power Skipper decreased speed.
Both of you agreed with my opening point that the vis/speed/situation was dangerous - hence both of you changed the variables. I had even pointed out that the only way around this was to change the variables.
However, reducing speed in that vis is not the same as increased vis. Increased vis still leaves speed reduction option and maintains the greater ability to manouvre to miss the buoy including the option to slow down.
So whilst you and I are in agreement, i am not in agrement with Power skipper who has not answered the querstion about the problems with reduced speed.
That is a clear and precise summary of the situation - if you disagree, tell me where.
You increased vis over the original point but Power Skipper decreased speed.
Both of you agreed with my opening point that the vis/speed/situation was dangerous - hence both of you changed the variables. I had even pointed out that the only way around this was to change the variables.
However, reducing speed in that vis is not the same as increased vis. Increased vis still leaves speed reduction option and maintains the greater ability to manouvre to miss the buoy including the option to slow down.
So whilst you and I are in agreement, i am not in agrement with Power skipper who has not answered the querstion about the problems with reduced speed.
That is a clear and precise summary of the situation - if you disagree, tell me where.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
No I do not know it all but I do have the ability to discussthe issues and learn from them, an ability lacking in a fair few around here.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Gludy, you are bonkers.... several people posted that they had sympathy with the position you held, and then you just kept on digging......
I too was a little sympathetic, but have subsequently had that position tempered a little..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I too was a little sympathetic, but have subsequently had that position tempered a little..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gludy
Well-Known Member
NAS
The situation with racing yachts at a starting line is totally different and you know it.
"Hear what you are saying about communications from the bow.... but you'd be prepared as you got close to where the mark was expected and ready to react.... wouldn't take 5 secs for helm to respond..... "
It would not have to take 5 seconds - even 8 seconds - the full time, without allowing for communication would probably result in a hit or very near miss and that is the situation that should be avoided.
The facts are here that both instructors on this thread have altered the figures of my opening ststement because both , it seems agree, that 5 knots, 10m is dangerous. I have tried to discuss the effect of lower speed but cannot get any serious discussion going admist the avalanche of personal abuse.... which is sad because its stops a learning debate.
The situation with racing yachts at a starting line is totally different and you know it.
"Hear what you are saying about communications from the bow.... but you'd be prepared as you got close to where the mark was expected and ready to react.... wouldn't take 5 secs for helm to respond..... "
It would not have to take 5 seconds - even 8 seconds - the full time, without allowing for communication would probably result in a hit or very near miss and that is the situation that should be avoided.
The facts are here that both instructors on this thread have altered the figures of my opening ststement because both , it seems agree, that 5 knots, 10m is dangerous. I have tried to discuss the effect of lower speed but cannot get any serious discussion going admist the avalanche of personal abuse.... which is sad because its stops a learning debate.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Give it a rest!
Your not learning anything here ... your preaching ... and not giving any leeway until everyone agrees with you ..
Please stay boating in the Bristol area because that means I'm very unlikely to see you on the water.
Your not learning anything here ... your preaching ... and not giving any leeway until everyone agrees with you ..
Please stay boating in the Bristol area because that means I'm very unlikely to see you on the water.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
That makes no contribution to any point.
Its is pointless posting such messages as they do not deal with any issue and just clog up the chance of getting anything out of it.
let me make this very clear.
I do not want sympathy nor anyting else other than a proper discussion of the subject. It frankly appears impossible on this forum and I can be balmed for trying ... the etrnal optimist.
I wanted a particular discussion and had a number of follow up questions that i could never even get to. I wanted to learn from it. That has, as usual been denied.
If you note the two insructors stayed out of a lot of it. sun_coast did concede that 10m was too tight and Power skipper that 5 knost was too fast - hence my original point has been agreed. However that was to be only the start of a series of questions and it is really a pity that such a path could not be followed.
Its is pointless posting such messages as they do not deal with any issue and just clog up the chance of getting anything out of it.
let me make this very clear.
I do not want sympathy nor anyting else other than a proper discussion of the subject. It frankly appears impossible on this forum and I can be balmed for trying ... the etrnal optimist.
I wanted a particular discussion and had a number of follow up questions that i could never even get to. I wanted to learn from it. That has, as usual been denied.
If you note the two insructors stayed out of a lot of it. sun_coast did concede that 10m was too tight and Power skipper that 5 knost was too fast - hence my original point has been agreed. However that was to be only the start of a series of questions and it is really a pity that such a path could not be followed.
Aardee
Well-Known Member
But that's the whole point, you don't discuss. Your idea of discussion makes legal cross-examination look like pub banter. Discussion is about sharing ideas and not being afraid to change your position and learn from the experience. You just seem to take pleasure in scoring points off people.
While you may be too blinkered to see it, your posts do come across as "I'm right, you're not" regardless of who's views you're crucifying, hence my defence of Powerskipper and Sun Coast (eventually) who almost certainly DO know better than most of us, me included.
If I wanted to be battered to death with my own words I'd have a conversation with my wife, at least she's got the looks.
While you may be too blinkered to see it, your posts do come across as "I'm right, you're not" regardless of who's views you're crucifying, hence my defence of Powerskipper and Sun Coast (eventually) who almost certainly DO know better than most of us, me included.
If I wanted to be battered to death with my own words I'd have a conversation with my wife, at least she's got the looks.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Fireball - you have nothing to contribute so you just resort to personal abuse.
Please just stay out of my discussions then we would both be a lot happier.
I opened this with a statement that given the figures given to the thread by an instructor, I thought it was dangerous to buoy hop .... that point has been agreed but on the way I have had to suffer all sorts of personal abuse rather than have people stick to the issue.
It really is impossible to have any real learning discussion with folks like you around not beeing able to deal with the issue.
Please just stay out of my discussions then we would both be a lot happier.
I opened this with a statement that given the figures given to the thread by an instructor, I thought it was dangerous to buoy hop .... that point has been agreed but on the way I have had to suffer all sorts of personal abuse rather than have people stick to the issue.
It really is impossible to have any real learning discussion with folks like you around not beeing able to deal with the issue.
fireball
Well-Known Member
the original "blind Nav" senario post by Sun_Coast
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Gludy with blind nav the instructor or examiner will get the students to take the boat to a certain position then stop the boat. Using the inside cabin, one will be put on the helm all the curtains are drawn, the second student will be at the chart table unable to see outside. The scenario is that thick fog has formed and visibilty is down to say 10m.
The helmsman gives the blind nav student the lat & long and the instructor gets the navigator to plot a course to a certain spot using all available info such as buoys, depths and contour lines etc.
The navigator plots the course then gives the bearing(s) to the helmsman and asks that he maintains a certain speed say 6 knts. Using course speed distance and depth contours, the navigator asks the helmsman to call out depths, and marks as he reaches them until they successfully reach there target.
[/ QUOTE ]
The instructor/examiner has given a target and VIS ... the navigator gives the other variables ... so it is the navigators choice as to speed etc etc
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Gludy with blind nav the instructor or examiner will get the students to take the boat to a certain position then stop the boat. Using the inside cabin, one will be put on the helm all the curtains are drawn, the second student will be at the chart table unable to see outside. The scenario is that thick fog has formed and visibilty is down to say 10m.
The helmsman gives the blind nav student the lat & long and the instructor gets the navigator to plot a course to a certain spot using all available info such as buoys, depths and contour lines etc.
The navigator plots the course then gives the bearing(s) to the helmsman and asks that he maintains a certain speed say 6 knts. Using course speed distance and depth contours, the navigator asks the helmsman to call out depths, and marks as he reaches them until they successfully reach there target.
[/ QUOTE ]
The instructor/examiner has given a target and VIS ... the navigator gives the other variables ... so it is the navigators choice as to speed etc etc
Aardee
Well-Known Member
Oh, so it's YOUR discussion, is it...My apologies, didn't realise it was a private conversation.
fireball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
my discussions
[/ QUOTE ]
These are NOT YOUR discussions ... Powerskipper started the thread - so get off it... you have no more right to this thread than I do.
my discussions
[/ QUOTE ]
These are NOT YOUR discussions ... Powerskipper started the thread - so get off it... you have no more right to this thread than I do.
No1_Moose
Well-Known Member
Go and book a YM exam for next week, report back with the results.
rickp
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I opened this with a statement that given the figures given to the thread by an instructor, I thought it was dangerous to buoy hop .... that point has been agreed but on the way I have had to suffer all sorts of personal abuse rather than have people stick to the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yet doing a 'show all' - the first person to mention 5 knots as the speed is you!
Rick
I opened this with a statement that given the figures given to the thread by an instructor, I thought it was dangerous to buoy hop .... that point has been agreed but on the way I have had to suffer all sorts of personal abuse rather than have people stick to the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yet doing a 'show all' - the first person to mention 5 knots as the speed is you!
Rick
fireball
Well-Known Member
You don't discuss .. you preach ....
You don't learn .. you batter the contributors down until they give up, content in the knowledge that one day you'll find youself in the situation your preaching on without a clue on how to get out of it.
You obviously have nothing more possitive to contribue to the discussion so kindly stay out and we might actually get somewhere with it
You don't learn .. you batter the contributors down until they give up, content in the knowledge that one day you'll find youself in the situation your preaching on without a clue on how to get out of it.
You obviously have nothing more possitive to contribue to the discussion so kindly stay out and we might actually get somewhere with it
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Fireball thank you for actually dealing with the point.
Your quote is correct but if you then follow up what was written on the thread in answer to my follow up questions you will see that I was then told 5 knots and 10m visibility and then reacted to that. So please readon on and you will see the exact points that I did the calcs in response to.
Your quote is correct but if you then follow up what was written on the thread in answer to my follow up questions you will see that I was then told 5 knots and 10m visibility and then reacted to that. So please readon on and you will see the exact points that I did the calcs in response to.
fireball
Well-Known Member
So that must mean that Gludy is wrong ... no suprise there then.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
I did not say thread I said discussion in an attempt to define the points that Inwas making. I fully appreciate that even a thread I start is not mine to control
