Yachting Monthly (March) MoB article.

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

It's worth many time an annual subscription.

In short, they tried plenty of 'kit' and found not one piece that could deliver for shorthanded crews. Quite sobering and should force us all to have yet another think.

 

[Never Grumble]

When was March's edition available? Perhaps I need to upgrade my safety lines.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

When was March's edition available? Perhaps I need to upgrade my safety lines.

I got mine in the post this morning.

 

[Never Grumble]

Mine must be nearly here then

 

[jwilson]

It's worth many time an annual subscription.

In short, they tried plenty of 'kit' and found not one piece that could deliver for shorthanded crews. Quite sobering and should force us all to have yet another think.

I have spent quite some time as an instructor practicing MOB drills including at times with real humans as MOBs (mostly with safety RIB in attendance). With real MOBs sometimes pretending to be unconscious. One RN diver was terrifyingly good at lying face down for several minutes.

If you are two-up and one goes overboard unconscious and untethered you absolutely urgently need outside assistance in probably 95%+ cases. With an unconscious MOB in anything but near flat calm conditions on a boat either with very low freeboard or with a stern platform you probably won't get them back alive, or even at all, and very little "equipment" will improve the odds much. The one thing that might give the biggest and quickest chance of success is a quickly launched inflatable dinghy with outboard on davits, but you (as the only one aboard) would be leaving the yacht unmanned.

With more than one person left aboard it gets much easier, and if needed (and it very well might be) one can go into the water on a line to assist. Though in practice you will be deeply horrified how long it actually takes to get an unconscious MOB back aboard - apart from just getting attached to the MOB there will be rigging tackles or winching. Picking up a fender or a hat is a doddle, a human is XXXXy difficult.

When I started practicing this I suggested if a MOB had no harness point putting a runnng bowline under their armpits and hoisting. I was told it would crush their chest. I tried it on myself. It hurt and I had some bruising, but it worked.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I have spent quite some time as an instructor practicing MOB drills including at times with real humans as MOBs (mostly with safety RIB in attendance). With real MOBs sometimes pretending to be unconscious. One RN diver was terrifyingly good at lying face down for several minutes.

If you are two-up and one goes overboard unconscious and untethered you absolutely urgently need outside assistance in probably 95%+ cases. With an unconscious MOB in anything but near flat calm conditions on a boat either with very low freeboard or with a stern platform you probably won't get them back alive, or even at all, and very little "equipment" will improve the odds much. The one thing that might give the biggest and quickest chance of success is a quickly launched inflatable dinghy with outboard on davits, but you (as the only one aboard) would be leaving the yacht unmanned.

With more than one person left aboard it gets much easier, and if needed (and it very well might be) one can go into the water on a line to assist. Though in practice you will be deeply horrified how long it actually takes to get an unconscious MOB back aboard - apart from just getting attached to the MOB there will be rigging tackles or winching. Picking up a fender or a hat is a doddle, a human is XXXXy difficult.

When I started practicing this I suggested if a MOB had no harness point putting a runnng bowline under their armpits and hoisting. I was told it would crush their chest. I tried it on myself. It hurt and I had some bruising, but it worked.

All agreed, and the dinghy was always towed for that purpose when the kids were small.

I posted because I know that it's tempting to thing that an expensive thing hanging untried on the pushpit is any sort of complete solution.

 

[CM74]

There are plenty of MAIB reports where even on commercial vessels with all sorts of kit there has been serious trouble getting them back onboard.

There was one recently in my industry (tugs) which was sadly fatal. They were alongside, had approved MOB gear, the casualty had a lifejacket, and at least initially was conscious - despite having a rescue boat, built in ladder, Jason's cradle and SB rescue sling they couldn't get him back on board, in the end a rescue boat arrived to assist. He'd been in the water about 20 minutes and didn't survive.

The report is sobering reading - 2 things things that spring to mind in particular is that they hadn't had much practice actually using the MOB gear, and with a crew of only 3 (which is 2 when one is overboard) they clearly really struggled.

 

[ashtead]

One thing I discovered is that even with a conscious MOB the emergency webbing ladders are too short to actually use -you can obviously hang on to it but try getting your foot in one. A main halyard with some form of loop might be a good idea but are there such slings to stop the chest crush described?

 

[zoidberg]

.......putting a runnng bowline under their armpits and hoisting. I was told it would crush their chest. I tried it on myself. It hurt and I had some bruising, but it worked.

Yes, that works. One can discuss the 'bruising' when safe at home.

Far, far better is the Lifesling device ( several variants ) which is padded for that very reason. It is also closely similar to the lifting device used by our own Coastguard Search and Rescue crews, and before them for decades on RAF S&R helicopters. This is the 'NATO Rescue Sling'.

Here's one of several commercial examples:

A conscious MOB casualty can get into this and close the sliding 'woggle'. Alternatively, a rescuer in the water can slip this over a casualty, and close the 'woggle'. There are techniques taught to S&R crews which make this fast and foolproof. No bruising.

The sling should be attached to a substantial/adequate line so the casualty is securely re-attached to the vessel ( helo? ) and can be drawn in and recovered.

 

[bikedaft]

I have spent quite some time as an instructor practicing MOB drills including at times with real humans as MOBs (mostly with safety RIB in attendance). With real MOBs sometimes pretending to be unconscious. One RN diver was terrifyingly good at lying face down for several minutes.

If you are two-up and one goes overboard unconscious and untethered you absolutely urgently need outside assistance in probably 95%+ cases. With an unconscious MOB in anything but near flat calm conditions on a boat either with very low freeboard or with a stern platform you probably won't get them back alive, or even at all, and very little "equipment" will improve the odds much. The one thing that might give the biggest and quickest chance of success is a quickly launched inflatable dinghy with outboard on davits, but you (as the only one aboard) would be leaving the yacht unmanned.

With more than one person left aboard it gets much easier, and if needed (and it very well might be) one can go into the water on a line to assist. Though in practice you will be deeply horrified how long it actually takes to get an unconscious MOB back aboard - apart from just getting attached to the MOB there will be rigging tackles or winching. Picking up a fender or a hat is a doddle, a human is XXXXy difficult.

When I started practicing this I suggested if a MOB had no harness point putting a runnng bowline under their armpits and hoisting. I was told it would crush their chest. I tried it on myself. It hurt and I had some bruising, but it worked.

We have a helo lifting strop, which goes under the armpits. Padded. Need to keep the arms down(!) but works well. If have been in for more than a short period, double strop them with a sling/rope under their knees (to avoid circulatory collapse after coming out the water). Winch from a halyard. SAR helos use this technique.

 

[jwilson]

Totally agree a proper strop is good. Have tried using a double bowline to split lift between armpits and knees but slow and awkward to get the two loops sizes right and fit in practice, hence settled for a single running bowline: it takes about 2 seconds to tie a bowline (as long as you "twist wrist" and don't have to play rabbits and trees) and another second to pull the bight through to create the loop.

 

[Stemar]

I work on the basis that, sailing two-up, both over 70, if one goes overboard it's an immediate mayday.

If Milady's the swimmer, I might have a chance, as long as she has her LJ and the water's warm; this time of the year, she's probably a (fortunately rare) statistic. If it's me, I'm basically on my own. We do have a deep boarding ladder, so as long as hypothermia hasn't got me, I'm in with a chance as long as she can stop the boat, because I'm a good swimmer and comfortable in the water, but at best, it's 50-50.

ISTM that the only reliable way to recover a Mob is before they get wet.

 

[zoidberg]

ISTM that the only reliable way to recover a Mob is before they get wet.

It's all very well exploring ways and means of recovering a MOB casualty - but it's a damn sight more important to focus on keeping them and you IN the boat.

 

[MattS]

When I did my day skipper, the instructor showed us how to use a head sail (we used a storm jib) as a sort of lifting platform to help get people out of the water horizontally. Incredibly difficult to do if you are the only person left on the boat, I expect. But as the guinea pig being lifted, it did work to hoist me up and roll me onto the deck.

Clew attached to a secure point forward, tack attacked to a secure point aft, and head attached to a halyard. Lay over the guardrails and down into the water, float the casualty over the submerged sail (either self-propelled, or with encouragement from attached lines / long sticks...), then winch on the halyard. Seemed like it could work in real life.

 

[TLouth7]

When I started practicing this I suggested if a MOB had no harness point putting a runnng bowline under their armpits and hoisting. I was told it would crush their chest. I tried it on myself. It hurt and I had some bruising, but it worked.

The concern is that lifting a hypothermic casualty out of water in a vertical position results in an increased risk of cardiac arrest. Of course if the alternative is not lifting them at all...

A rather sobering statistic from the USA is that consistently ~50% of MOBs from recreational vessels there result in fatalities. Accident Statistic
On the other hand the overall fatality rates are pretty low, such that my personal opinion is that the consistent focus by sailors (or at least many on these fora) on mitigating risks is excessive. Based on the linked statistics you might be better off carrying a breathalyser than an MOB hoist.

 

[Daedelus]

Mrs D was on a training course and their instructor lay down on the pontoon and said ok get me back on board. Four of them (all girls) couldn't do it.

After that she was very firm on lifelines (short) and LJs being worn and happily neither of us have fallen overboard.

See this short video - a highly trained crew of around 20 take over quarter of an hour to get the MOB back.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Don't forget the liferaft. For some reason it rarely gets mentioned in MOB scenarios.

 

[lustyd]

One thing I discovered is that even with a conscious MOB

This triggered a memory for me of a conscious "MOB" I rescued at Emsworth marina once. Conscious does not mean cooperative and a panicking MOB will do everything in their power to prevent your attempts at rescue. On this occasion he was wedging himself under a rope and couldn't be lifted by his (I assume) wife back onto the pontoon. I had to force him down and sideways at which point it was easy to lift him out (albeit heavy!).
The sling posted above is great if you have a calm MOB. In real life they may well fight you as you try to put it on them! The best bet seems to be practice and breadth of options and a calm head, and even then it'll be hard!

 

[zoidberg]

The sling posted above is great if you have a calm MOB. In real life they may well fight you as you try to put it on them! The best bet seems to be practice and breadth of options and a calm head, and even then it'll be hard!

Not wrong!

'In another incarnation' I trained at the RAF's Search and Rescue training facility then at RAF Valley, for some weeks.
The 'crewman' who dangles down on the wire ( 'rescue swimmer' in USCG parlance ) trains to subdue struggling, non-cooperative casualties. They are taught to expect a panic-stricken 'customer' to grab them and try to climb up onto the rescuer. Others fight to avoid the strop being placed over their arms and head. A 'swift uppercut' was among the unlisted remedial techniques.

 

[Birdseye]

A pal whilst instructing a crew of foremen for their DS decided on a nice summer day to make M oB drill more realistic. He shouted MoB and jumped off the side. Then he feigned unconsciousness. The 5 firemen he was training were unable to get him back on board until he helped them do so.

But more importantly, when did any of the posters last practise MoB drill? Its at least 10 years for me.