Yacht or motor boat to live on..advice for newbie?

Bajansailor – I love the look of the racer style. Not sure it’s practical, but if it’s a look I could fall in love with, then it’s definitely in for a chance. I hear what you’re saying about age/price/classic design, and I’ll take that on board (no pun intended).

Djbreeze – looks lovely inside, very modern and fresh. However the exterior just looks, well, dumpy and fat. The Jeanneau I’ve linked to just looks more sexy and easy on the eye. Perhaps because its more a racer, I’m not sure (I’m still learning). But it made me smile, it’s the kind I want I think. Something about it just interests me.

Ludds got a point; a catamaran in Brighton Marina would cost a fortune.

1bobt – when you say expensive to maintain, what about that particular boat (racer style) would make it any more costly to maintain than any other similar sized yacht? Is it something to do with racers? Would it be possible to sail this kind of vessel on my own? Or does a racer that size NEED a couple of people to operate her?
 
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jimmy_bobby said:
should be and look modern – almost futuristic - now. It should turn heads. I should make you feel like you’ve just won the lottery when you come home from work and look at it.

It should be no older than 15-years-old

It needs to be under £40,000.
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Hi Jimmy...

Just a couple of points, if you can stand them from an old hand. The modern, futuristic thing as someone has already pointed out doesn't last mate. In fact boats that come across that way at first seem to date very quickly, and can be a bugger to shift later on when you've had enough. There's plenty of them out there sure enough, but fashion being fashion.....

As for Quote : " It should turn heads. It should make you feel like you’ve just won the lottery when you come home from work and look at it." I can assure you, that when you've found your boat and fallen in love with it, this is how you;ll feel regardless of what it is. Others may think it's a dog.... but you'll think it's the bees knees.

Right...Age : Don't get too hung up on that, especially GRP boats. If a boat has been well maintained, updated and loved by a caring owner, it'll beat a newer boat hands down that has just been ignored and left on a marina/mooring for years. And believe me thousands of them are. Remember, an incredible amount of boats are bought by people on a whim. Difficult to get your head around, but they are.

Type : Now I'm a cruiser/racer fan, and have been for many years so I'm biased, but get a good one and you'll have the best of both worlds. Anything French from the 1980's onwards will have bags of room below and most (not all though) sail well and are good sea boats. They were the guys who took production boat building to a whole new level. The English took a little later to catch on, but had to because they lost their market share. Agree with the separate cabins aft, they are a real plus. I was divorced when I bought my Beneteau, and the kids had a cabin each when they came to stay with me, brilliant.

I haven't got the time right now to explain all I'd like to on this next bit but I'll try and cover a few things cos it's important. There are loads of cruiser/racers out there but they certainly don't all behave in the same way at sea. Some are pretty skittish and broach far to easily. Ok in a force 5 and flat sea, but bloody hard work in a 7 with a sea running and short handed. The higher the ballast ratio and deeper the keel will make a boat stiffer when the wind blows. Try to avoid anything with big unsupported spade rudders. I earn my living in yacht repair/construction, and over the past four years, we've had a variety of these boats in with serious rudder/structural problems. It ain't cheap to get fixed. Dam dangerous too. Same goes with keel/construction and fastening. Teak Decks....beautiful to look at when new and in good condition. On a GRP boat they are purely cosmetic and at their thickest 9/12mm when new. If the caulking is starting to protrude above the teak, and a few screw heads are showing....leave well alone. You're looking at serious dosh to replace. Sail drive units get the thumbs up from me. Ok, like anything mechanical they can go wrong, but if checked and maintained they save a lot of aggro over conventional shaft driven props. Save a lot of space below as well. Personal one this but I'll mention it. Mainsheet tracks running across the middle of the cockpit. Total pain in the butt, especially on a dark wet night with some wind blowing. Bit of a racing thing really, but **** for cruising. Try to stick to a simple masthead rig if at all possible. Remember too, the bigger the rig/sails, the more you have to handle. Bigger costs too when they need replacing...ouch!

Ok...£40,000??? you'll find a boat for less than that I'm sure. Please remember though that buying the boat is only the start. Nothing with the name marine alongside it is cheap. Translation : Chandlery = Swindlery. Far better to have a few quid left in your pocket to add things, maintenance etc than pushing yourself to your financial limits and still having to spend. It can quickly sour the experience. Anyway, enough from me for now, hope I've given you something to think about.

By the way, I reckon you'll pick up the sailing thing pretty quick. But beware, once addicted it'll ruin your life....(I'll leave you to work that one out)
 
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A cruiser-racer used just as a cruiser shouldn't be more expensive to maintain. Racing costs a lot more due to cost of sails and gear and general wear & tear, but if you don't race you shouldn't incur these costs, as long as you avoid inheriting problems with the one you buy.

They can be a little harder to sail. Most modern cruiser-racers need to be kept quite upright. Their hull form means they develop weather helm if they heel too much, sometimes dramatically. When racing, trimming (playing) the main is a pretty active job to keep the boat manageable. Obviously you'll be less able to do that when cruising, especially single-handed. Having said that a lot of modern cruisers have the same issue but without the means to play the main. Jeanneau I believe often use the same hull form but with smaller rigs on their cruisers.

In some aspects racers are easier to handle as the gear is spec'd to do the job.

There's a bit of a natural conflict for a live aboard. You want as big as you can afford for accommodation, but you want to keep the size of the boat quite small to make it easier to handle and cheaper to berth.

The bigger the boat you sail the less your options are for getting out of trouble using brute force, so you need more skill and experience to both predict problems to avoid them and react efficiently to escape the ones you didn't predict.

However there's no reason at all why you have to sail single-handed. You can always invite friends & colleagues (experienced or a mixture of experienced & novice) out to crew for you. As you get more experienced you can do more until you are confident enough to try single-handed.
 
Jimmy, here is a Sun Odyssey version of your Jeanneau Sun Fast 36 for sale - this has (I think) the same hull, but a slightly more cruising orientated layout - however one slight snag is that she is in the BVIs......
http://www.boatshed.com/jeanneau_sun_odyssey_36-boat-67146.html

A pal of mine bought a 10 year old Sun Odyssey 40 from the BVIs last year for GBP 43,000, and I would think that the 36 is basically a smaller version - the 40 sails like a dream.

Have a look at Saxon Pirate's Beneteau 35 for sale in his B-log - if she is within your price range she might be the ideal boat for you?
 
IMHO a reliable source of electricity makes a great deal of difference when living aboard. Also a heating system that does not generate volumes of water vapour.
Check out Sea Dogs (30 ft Reg Freeman centre cockpit ketch). About the right price; ticks all the boxes; well built.
 
Saxonpirate – I understand what you’re saying about model/futuristic looking boats, but as you say, you’ve got to get something that you really like, and I think that’s the style that does it for me.

You mention French boats – any suggestions on makes? There never seems to be a country of origin tab when searching for boats. Thanks for the advice on things to look out for and avoid. I keep that in mind when viewing. I will try and have a few thousand left over in the bank for repairs and interior (heating/water systems etc).

JCP – I understand what you’re saying about costs of racers. I have no real intention of racing, or spending every spare minute taking her out, It just needs to be able to, well, for when I do want to.

Bajansailor – Nice boat linked. Doesn’t quite have the sleek look of the Sun fast that I seem to have warmed to, but good use of space down below, and a great price. Slight issue with the location though lol!

Malabar - Thnks, i'll havea look.

I’m going to look at a few boats this weekend and have just received a Barclays Marine Mortgage application via email to print off and send back. So fingers crossed just after Christmas I’ll be living the dream!
 
Ludd said:
Only nice one I've seen was a Windboats hull,which coincidentally is about the only insurable one!
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I bought a 1986 Endurance 40 last year for 7,500.00 Awesome boat. Beautiful solid wood interior. Powerful diesel. Top of the line rig and hardware. What is wrong with it? Nothing! Except possibly it is the USA, but so am I so what the heck.
Seriously tho, Windboats built a fine ferro boat to high standard and you really can get a lot for your money.
 
JB

Loving your enthusiasm with this. It isn't always easy but loads more fun than living in a house. If you get stuck at any time, please feel free to message us any time for any help we can give, as we've made most mistakes in the past!
Only wish we were back in the UK and you could have come for a sail for the weekend to see if you like it or not..... you will.
How about getting in touch with a sailing school for a course. Prices are really cheap through the winter.
For our money, try to get a boat with a sound engine and sails. (learn about engines as these are generally the most pricey things to replace) and just get a boat you will be proud to sail into anchor.
Good luck!
Patrick and Sinead
www.yachtfoxglove.com
 
jimmy_bobby said:
Good value for money, but a bit too small for me down below. I hadn't thought of ebay!
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Unless you know lots about boats or have a friend who does, I'd be very wary about buying one off eBay. I'm sure that bargains can be found by the knowledgeable, but a minefield for the novice.
 
Hi Jimmy

This is a great thread to follow. It reminds me of when I first started hatching a plan like yours, and now I have sailed almost halfway round the world and have two children. I even paid a visit to Bajan in Barbados along the way.;)

Have a look at this. Not quite your criteria but it's one of those liveaboards that has had a huge re-fit for extended liveavboard voyaging and now very sadly the owner is unable to go and the boat has to be sold at a reduced price

Almost completely new interior, lots of new kit and new standing rigging.

PM if of interest.

Keep the dream alive, it can be done and all the best to you.
 
Best of luck jimmy_bobby. A few thoughts - you might consider the YM/PBO reprint service (later ones available as pdf since you're in a hurry :) - we got reviews of lots of the boats we looked at and they were very helpful.

Would strongly recommend buying a boat which is well known and easily resaleable. You are bound to learn a great deal and may wish to change boat (no not give up of course) once you have.

And of course the trade-off which has already been mentioned between what you can handle either single-handed or with inexperienced help and the size of boat you want to live on. Once out sailing there is time to manage most things but its those tricky moments getting into and out of marina berths that can make your hair go grey :) On that front the more modern boats with fin keels are much easier to handle under power and you can even go backwards (not something those of us with longer keels contemplate with any degree of comfort). However one point friends with a Bavaria made is that the high-sided (high volume with lots of space) modern boats make the leap for the pontoon a long one. Now at your age I'm sure that's no problem but if you're trying to moor single-handed it can make things trickier.

Fully agree with you that falling in love with a boat is very important. I can forgive our boat some of her restrictions because every time I see her I think she's drop-dead gorgeous. So I don't envy those with saloons you could have a tea-dance in !

Very best of luck - carpe diem !

P
 
rivonia said:
Hi James welcome. Your budget seems a tad LOW if you want to live aboard. Probably a Motor rather than sail. Suggest you go around local marinas and start to see what is available.
Would think a strapping fit chap like you would need at least 36 foot boat. Plenty around but most out of your budget of 20K. Good hunting
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???

This is true if you don't actually want to live on a boat, instead just have a house on the water that happens to have a mast and sails.

Just woke up after my first night in my new home... £850, she cost me, and is indeed a proper boat with a long keel.

James, 20k is PLENTY.
 
Update!

Right, it’s been ages, so thought i’d post an update.

I’m not in a boat right now, but must be living aboard one before the end of the month.

Initially I was looking to spend up to 20-30k on a boat, but that figure quickly decreased. This was due to the family house not being sold and my ex wife staying there. Long story short, the equity is not available and wont be for a long time.

I was offered a room with a friend and took that option, temporarily, keeping the dream of living aboard on the agenda. The room I currently rent is not going to be available after the end of this month (June), which will again leave me homeless. Of course lots of friends have offered rooms for the short term, but I just can’t stand tip-toeing around someone else’s house, and need something to call my own (i’m 27 and have a four year old, living in a room in someone else’s house just isn’t acceptable for me anymore). I also cannot stand paying someone else’s mortgage by renting. It’s dead money and I resent it.

Back to the boat idea! I can muster up about 5k in finances. I tried to get a marine mortgage for 30k, but was refused. Most of the companies only allowed you to take out a marine mortgage on a narrow boat, or tug type boat. I wanted a sailing boat.

I’m now looking at a considerably smaller boat, between 23-27 foot, with 5-6k as a maximum to finance it (that included transporting it to Brighton, from wherever I buy it). The idea is, its not a massive deal of money and if I decide I hate it, I can sell and not loose a fortune, but if I decide I love it, at some point in the future my equity will materialise from the family house and I can buy that dream boat.

I’m looking at my top 3 boats this coming weekend (have looked at about 6 in person, and thousands online). I have to buy one of them soon. I can’t wait! Already bought cutlery, a heater, plates, small pots and pan set, interior bits and bobs. I love buying boat things. I never got this excited about buying stuff for my house.

Thanks again guys for the really helpful post of advice and support. I REALLY hope to be part of the liveaboard community by the end of this month.
 
Good luck Jimmy, we shall look forward to seeing your updates!
Are you at liberty to tell us what types are the top 3 boats on your list?

A pal of mine bought a wee 24' Snapdragon a few years ago for the princely sum of 5k, and has been living on board her on the south coast, even in mid winter (in a marina with an electric heater) ever since, and thinks it is absolutely brilliant.
 
Good luck! Bendyone's Snapdragon 27 suggestion seems worth a look. I'm in Brighton now, give us a shout if you need a hand with anything...
 
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