Cliveshep
Well-Known Member
Would you like to negotiate a rate based on Lloyds Open now or wait 'till later?
would you call a pan pan in this situation
- Thread starter ninky
- Start date
Would you like to negotiate a rate based on Lloyds Open now or wait 'till later?
Pete7
Well-Known Member
i did smile when he gave his sail number "to aid identification"
and then admit to the world that he didn't actually have the sail up. Still no harm done, lifeboat got someone to practise on, in the area anyway and a problem solved before it entered the incident pit.
Pete
purplerobbie
Well-Known Member
This is a story as i was told it and i have no reason to disbelieve it.
A friend was delivering a boat across biscay and it had a engine problem after a couple of days.
No problem he thought its a sailing boat we will just sail. After a couple of days more the batteries where almost dead and he was about 15 mile of the coast. The weather was was less than ideal (5 to 6) and it was starting to get dark.
He contact the Coast-guard to see if there was any way to get a tow.
He is a sailing boat trying to beat into a very busy south coast harbor in bad weather in the dark with no navigation lights.
They said No, You are in no immediate danger and gave him the number of a salvage company who would come out and tow him in.
Rob
A friend was delivering a boat across biscay and it had a engine problem after a couple of days.
No problem he thought its a sailing boat we will just sail. After a couple of days more the batteries where almost dead and he was about 15 mile of the coast. The weather was was less than ideal (5 to 6) and it was starting to get dark.
He contact the Coast-guard to see if there was any way to get a tow.
He is a sailing boat trying to beat into a very busy south coast harbor in bad weather in the dark with no navigation lights.
They said No, You are in no immediate danger and gave him the number of a salvage company who would come out and tow him in.
Rob
ninky
Well-Known Member
worrying. do you think there is a different attitude to professional sailors (presume he was on a paid delivery) compared to leisure boaters?
lesson here from my point of view is not to rely on engine as sole source of power generation.
purplerobbie
Well-Known Member
Dunno?
We always used to joke that coast guard he spoke to was the bloke who came out for him. He just swapped his hats and away he went.
It is odd that a rope around a prop in the middle of the day is more important that that? But i don't have the full facts.
Rob
We always used to joke that coast guard he spoke to was the bloke who came out for him. He just swapped his hats and away he went.
It is odd that a rope around a prop in the middle of the day is more important that that? But i don't have the full facts.
Rob
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
Pan-Pan is a request for specific assistance (ie doctor etc)
Perhaps a 'Securite' call may be an idea just to make the CG aware of the situation then clear the prop.
I've used 'Securite' when crossing the channel shipping lanes with a dodgy engine and Dover CG were most helpful in letting everyone know where I was and checking that I was okay and clear.
Perhaps a 'Securite' call may be an idea just to make the CG aware of the situation then clear the prop.
I've used 'Securite' when crossing the channel shipping lanes with a dodgy engine and Dover CG were most helpful in letting everyone know where I was and checking that I was okay and clear.
DaveS
Well-Known Member
Fine if you happen to sail here: http://www.seastart.co.uk/membership-information/areas-covered-by-seastart.html
OK, I know many do, but by no means all of us ...
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Years ago - I was in a situation that told me I should call CG ... but I did it on Solent CG working channel and not as a Pan / Mayday .... I called them and described the situation.
Outboard engine swamped and inoperable, forestay carried away, genny fully unfurled at masthead so we'd used furling line / sheets to drag down and lash off, spinny halyard as temp forestay, mast damaged, spreaders snapped off ... no means to propel the boat and we were bouncing hard more and more onto the bank outside Bembridge in worsening weather ... at that time hitting F6 gusting 7 with F8 forecast.
(We had been making a dash back across Solent to Langstone before weather prevented return ..... !!)
We could have sat it out with anchor deployed but would have been extremely uncomfortable ... with medium risk as she would have been bashing herself out on the bottom throughout. Boat Snapdragon 23 triple keeler
Solent CG sent the Lifeboat which couldn't get to us - too shallow. They fired rocket line ... we hauled in for towing hawser ... then they towed us back into Bembridge.
LB crew said after that they don't get much opportunity to do Rocket Line / towing job so it was good practice ... for Harry and I - we were glad to be tied up and not still out there.
Reading OP - not knowing full circumstance - I can only say I don't consider on that evidence a Pan Pan was justified. But I certainly would have advised CG of the situation so that in event of needing assistance they already had details.
Outboard engine swamped and inoperable, forestay carried away, genny fully unfurled at masthead so we'd used furling line / sheets to drag down and lash off, spinny halyard as temp forestay, mast damaged, spreaders snapped off ... no means to propel the boat and we were bouncing hard more and more onto the bank outside Bembridge in worsening weather ... at that time hitting F6 gusting 7 with F8 forecast.
(We had been making a dash back across Solent to Langstone before weather prevented return ..... !!)
We could have sat it out with anchor deployed but would have been extremely uncomfortable ... with medium risk as she would have been bashing herself out on the bottom throughout. Boat Snapdragon 23 triple keeler
Solent CG sent the Lifeboat which couldn't get to us - too shallow. They fired rocket line ... we hauled in for towing hawser ... then they towed us back into Bembridge.
LB crew said after that they don't get much opportunity to do Rocket Line / towing job so it was good practice ... for Harry and I - we were glad to be tied up and not still out there.
Reading OP - not knowing full circumstance - I can only say I don't consider on that evidence a Pan Pan was justified. But I certainly would have advised CG of the situation so that in event of needing assistance they already had details.
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VicS
Well-Known Member
I agree that should not have been a PanPan call .... bluddy well should have been a Mayday!
estarzinger
Well-Known Member
I disagree.
I agree the Pan Pan can be used to call for medical help in an "urgent but not immediately dangerous" medical situation. And "Pan-pan medico, pan-pan medico, pan-pan medico" is actually the most proper call for this.
But Pan Pan can also be used in many other situations where the skipper remains confident that they can handle the situation without assistance and that there is no current immediate danger to the life of any person or to the safety of the vessel itself.
"Pan-Pan is the radiotelephone URGENCY signal that indicates the sending station has an urgent message to transmit concerning the safety of a vessel, aircraft, or person.The urgency signal PAN PAN is used when the safety of the ship or person is in jeopardy. The safety signal SECURITY is used for
messages about the safety of navigation or important weather warnings." from USCG website
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ninky
Well-Known Member
i did my radio course last year and according to the latest rya handbook ' the proword "panpan medico", referred to in some old reference books, is no longer used. the proword "medical" is still used, but only the context of medical transports in war".'
generally in a panpan as well as describing your situation you also describe the assistance you require. the caller in this instance did not describe what assistance he required - leaving the coastguard effectively having to offer the maximum assistance. securite is generally for transmitting information about potential hazards to other ships. i don't think a yacht in a safe anchorage is posing any hazard to shipping.
personally i think there should be a charge for requiring a tow when there is no imminent danger. if my car brokedown i wouldn't call the police, i'd call the aa. even if the OH was shrieking at me and complaining they were going to be late for tea......
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I think the persons involved on board also have a bearing on severity of situation. Harry and I in our situation were not at limits YET ! but getting there. So I made decision to call CG and let them know our situation. But I didn't call with a mind to set emergency services in motion - just to advise so IF we needed them - they were aware.
I can well imagine that some others in same situation may have been past their capability and into "emergency services phase".
curve
Well-Known Member
That might stop people from calling out the CG through fear of not wanting to be charged for a tow when no assistance is required.
estarzinger
Well-Known Member
Ok, the RYA and USCG can disagree on that. I suspect that it would be understood if you used it.
ninky
Well-Known Member
sorry but if you can afford to keep a boat running you can afford a tow. perhaps it could be covered by insurance (as 999 calls are in the case of road crashes). i don't see why the non-boating public should pay taxes for an emergency service to be used as a hobbyists tow service. i hope the people who put out the call yesterday at least made a hefty donation to rnli by way of thanks.
D
DogWatch
Guest
I thought people didn't call for fear of a newbie sailor s******ing away in their cockpit a few miles away; later mocking them on a forum with scant information on the circumstances.
That word was sniggering
ah, I see what it did, Dan will you please sort this nanny filter out please!
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doug748
Well-Known Member
Quite agree.
When my engine packed up in a flat calm this season I got in, with the dinghy lashed alongside, at 2am.
Nothing would have induced me to call the Coastguard, I am pretty sure I would have become another "saved" statistic.
curve
Well-Known Member
Well, we had the MacGregor and Seaside Rescue people in here so no doubt this other chap will be along to tell their full side of the story rather than just the s******ing newbies forumites' version.
purplerobbie
Well-Known Member
There was a thread on here a while ago about someone who was forced to take a tow with no problems at all?
Something to do with his wife asking the CG for his eta and they send out the lifeboats??
Rob
Something to do with his wife asking the CG for his eta and they send out the lifeboats??
Rob
Poignard
Well-Known Member
No I would not.
I remember about ten years ago listening on Ch16 when a yacht a few miles south of the Isle of Wight called the coastguard and reported his tiller had broken. However, he had a spare and was fitting it. The weather was bad and he said he did not need assistance but wanted them to be aware in case he was unable to fix the problem and his situation worsened.
The Coastguard thanked him and asked him to let them know at intervals how he was getting on. He did so and eventually completed the repair, notified the C/G and resumed his passage.
That's how it should be but we now seem to have a situation developing where "they" always know what's best for us and our wishes don't count.
Personally I don't like it. Although I defer to no-one in my admiration for the personal courage of the lifeboat and helicopter crews it seems to me that the bureaucrats in the corporate headquarters are intent on a bit of empire building. This is in line with the general busydodying in our affairs that all public authorities and quangos now go in for. I don't think there's any sinister motive behind it, it's just done for the sake of "administrative convenience", it's the way the bureaucratic mind works.
ps I also think there was a second Kennedy assasin.
I remember about ten years ago listening on Ch16 when a yacht a few miles south of the Isle of Wight called the coastguard and reported his tiller had broken. However, he had a spare and was fitting it. The weather was bad and he said he did not need assistance but wanted them to be aware in case he was unable to fix the problem and his situation worsened.
The Coastguard thanked him and asked him to let them know at intervals how he was getting on. He did so and eventually completed the repair, notified the C/G and resumed his passage.
That's how it should be but we now seem to have a situation developing where "they" always know what's best for us and our wishes don't count.
Personally I don't like it. Although I defer to no-one in my admiration for the personal courage of the lifeboat and helicopter crews it seems to me that the bureaucrats in the corporate headquarters are intent on a bit of empire building. This is in line with the general busydodying in our affairs that all public authorities and quangos now go in for. I don't think there's any sinister motive behind it, it's just done for the sake of "administrative convenience", it's the way the bureaucratic mind works.
ps I also think there was a second Kennedy assasin.
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