SJK
New Member
Can anyone advise me what the pitfalls or advantages are of a sailing yacht built out of hard wood and epoxy? I am thinking about buying a boat and there is a Bruce Roberts design that I am interested in.
Thanks
Thanks
wood & epoxy build
- Thread starter SJK
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boomerangben
Well-Known Member
I have no experience of owning one, but I have been lucky enough to have been invited to sail in one a couple of times. Definitely quieter down below than a plastic fantastic and appear to be stiffer in the structural sense. Kinder to the environment and good for a one off. I would have one by preference to any other build method.
SJK
New Member
Thanks. I had not thought of that. I guess the much heavier weight of construction and the insulation of the wood will absorb sound rather than create an echo box.
oldsaltoz
Well-Known Member
Can anyone advise me what the pitfalls or advantages are of a sailing yacht built out of hard wood and epoxy? I am thinking about buying a boat and there is a Bruce Roberts design that I am interested in.
Thanks
Having done and still doing a lot of work on timber boats for others I feel you should know you will miss a lot of good sailing time because this or that has to maintained.
Timber boats need constant maintenance to the point that after many years of assisting timber boat owners my boat has zero timber on deck, all replaced with stainless or or fibreglass. Because it was a maintenance burden.
I absolutely love the look and feel of timber yachts but will never own one because I love sailing more.
Having said that, if you are going to have a timber boat then one that been put together with an epoxy is an excellent choice, it mates timber stronger and therefore a little less flexible, reduces rot, so less maintenance.
Epoxy can be thinned to improve penetration by adding up to 30% Methylated Spirits to the mix. However it will degrade in UV light so MUST be protected by a coat of paint or a varnish with the highest available UV block.
I wish you good luck and fair winds.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
There are many variations on the wood/epoxy composite building method so you need to find out exactly how it was built and by whom as the end result can vary from a disaster to a masterpiece.
A good starting point is the Gougeon Brothers book which explains the main techniques. Ian Nicholson's book on strip planking is also useful. These sources will give you the vocabulary relevant to the construction method and help you determine what to look for.
Almost by definition boats built this way tend to be individualistic so are much more difficult to assess than production GRP boats. The linited market tends to depress the market price(particularly in relation to original build cost) so you can end up with a bargain if the boat suits you and is well built and maintained.
A good starting point is the Gougeon Brothers book which explains the main techniques. Ian Nicholson's book on strip planking is also useful. These sources will give you the vocabulary relevant to the construction method and help you determine what to look for.
Almost by definition boats built this way tend to be individualistic so are much more difficult to assess than production GRP boats. The linited market tends to depress the market price(particularly in relation to original build cost) so you can end up with a bargain if the boat suits you and is well built and maintained.
BobPrell
Well-Known Member
If a boat is put together with timber and epoxy, and given a complete layer of epoxy and glass inside and out, it should need no more maintenance than an all-glass boat.
As boatbuilder Peter Brady taught me once, it has then been built as a composite boat, the timber is the core material.
I second that!
rwoofer
Well-Known Member
Can anyone advise me what the pitfalls or advantages are of a sailing yacht built out of hard wood and epoxy? I am thinking about buying a boat and there is a Bruce Roberts design that I am interested in.
Thanks
Just to balance oldsaltoz post. I've had a wood epoxy boat and there is absolutely no difference between that and GRP on the maintenance front. Epoxy is by far the most waterproof resin and the difference between epoxy wood and other types of wood construction are like night and day.
Many GRP boats use a balsa core which is far more susceptible to water damage than a hardwood or a good plywood, so are arguably a less suitable construction.
oldsaltoz
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth my own boat, a 42 cat is a composite construction, the core material being Klegacell with a new to me coating between it and the epoxy and glass application.
Have never had any problems touch wood.
I wish you good luck and fair winds.
Have never had any problems touch wood.
I wish you good luck and fair winds.
sighmoon
Well-Known Member
Nope, I think it's lighter, or at least can be, with this method of construction.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Google tells me Klegacell is now out of production but basically the same stuff as Airex, Herex and Divinycell, i.e. closed cell PVC, by far the best core material for sandwich construction. One of its biggest virtues is that no harm comes to it from water ingress through the skin. However careful you are, that will always happen, through flexing round a skin fitting or an accidental scrape. If the core is wood, there is always a risk of rot starting.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Funny, I was just mulling over this topic last night after seeing this:
http://www.berthongroup.co.uk/New_U...c_info.asp-&vessels_id=103451&curr_id=10&vd=1
...in Jan YM. "A lot of property for the money" as the Estate Agents like to say.
http://www.berthongroup.co.uk/New_U...c_info.asp-&vessels_id=103451&curr_id=10&vd=1
...in Jan YM. "A lot of property for the money" as the Estate Agents like to say.
simonfraser
Well-Known Member
i sail a 10yr old epoxy / ply boat, would buy one again for sure, light, easy to fix.
go and sea an old one before you build / buy, that should convince you.
go and sea an old one before you build / buy, that should convince you.
SailBobSquarePants
Well-Known Member
West System
I took a day long class as West System's offices this fall to learn about wood/epoxy construction. If done right, it is amazing - not just for boats, but for a host of other items, such as furniture. I highly recommend the Gougion brothers book, which really tells you enough to actually make your own - and explains the advantages and pitfalls. A properly constructed wood/epoxy boat can be lighter than GRP, tougher, and easy to work on. It wasn't too long ago that many racing boats were using it for construction, and it is still used extensively for catamarans (it always was easier to mold and lay-up a long, thin hull, hence the extensive use of wood/epoxy on catamarans).
I took a day long class as West System's offices this fall to learn about wood/epoxy construction. If done right, it is amazing - not just for boats, but for a host of other items, such as furniture. I highly recommend the Gougion brothers book, which really tells you enough to actually make your own - and explains the advantages and pitfalls. A properly constructed wood/epoxy boat can be lighter than GRP, tougher, and easy to work on. It wasn't too long ago that many racing boats were using it for construction, and it is still used extensively for catamarans (it always was easier to mold and lay-up a long, thin hull, hence the extensive use of wood/epoxy on catamarans).
Didi
Well-Known Member
I am in the middle of the build of a gaboon marine ply/epoxy 38' footer (actually 40' with a stern extension). It's still in the garden 
so have no first hand experience of maintenance and upkeep. I used WEST throughout and a lot of their methods including precoating every single piece of wood before installation. I glassed the hull externally and a guy from Wessex resins (who make WEST resin et al under licence in UK) helped me which was a big help. Also glassed inside the hull skin near the bow for impact strength. I have used over 200Kgs of resin so far.
I did a lot of research before committing to the build and IMHO if done properly e.g. total encapsulation in resin throughout with UV protection where needed - I don't see why (and am certainly hoping) that it should be low maintenance.
so have no first hand experience of maintenance and upkeep. I used WEST throughout and a lot of their methods including precoating every single piece of wood before installation. I glassed the hull externally and a guy from Wessex resins (who make WEST resin et al under licence in UK) helped me which was a big help. Also glassed inside the hull skin near the bow for impact strength. I have used over 200Kgs of resin so far.I did a lot of research before committing to the build and IMHO if done properly e.g. total encapsulation in resin throughout with UV protection where needed - I don't see why (and am certainly hoping) that it should be low maintenance.
bluemoongaffer
Well-Known Member
I have a wood / epoxy boat. If I'm honest, it is more time consuming in terms of maintenance than a fibreglass equivalent. That's partly because it's hard to get a good, permanent hull finish with ordinary paint, so I end up repainting that every year or so. And, having been built of wood, a lot of the cabin top / cockpit is a varnish finish over the epoxy. This needs regular re-varnishing
Bobobolinsky
Well-Known Member
Two pack poly, makes a good UV proof coating, you can also use high build clearcoat instead of varnish.
