Wire jackstays

[mick]

I intend to replace my webbing jackstays with wire ones placed inside webbing tubes, the wire for strength and the tubes to prevent losing footing on a rolling wire.
A) Is this a sensible solution to the jackstay problem?
B) What size of wire is best? I was thinking of 8mm.


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[qsiv]

I'm not sure it's necessary - the webbing has a breaking strain that is hugely high, and also has a little elasticity. I can also foresee real difficulty fixing the end of your webbing tubes so that they dont ride up and down the wire.

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[webcraft]

I think it's a good idea. That way you don't have to worry about unseen degradation of the webbing - you just replace it when/if it actually falls apart.

Should be no problem with the webbing riding up the wire if you fix both webbing and wire to the same attachment point.

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
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[bigmart]

The only problem with that is the webbing will hide damage to the wire. On some highly used boats I sail, it is not uncommon for, wire Jackstays to require replacement a couple of times during the season.

Martin

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[LadyInBed]

Re: Fixing ends

End the wire with an eye then just stitch the webbing through the eye.

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[JimMcMillan]

no way. replace the strops.even if the the wire is inside a tube when u stand on it u will roll 6/7inches a time. keep it flat.

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[webcraft]

What sort of damage?

And how will this occur if the wire is enclosed in webbing?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
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[BrianJ]

For all offshore racing and some big bay racing here in OZ , I am sure wire jackstays are now banned ... I would see a problem of possible damage to the wire not being seen if iserted in the strap..
Bria J

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[qsiv]

Re: Fixing ends

But you are relying entirely on the strength of th stitching - may be pk as it is not load bearing.

I just cant see the advantage - you can buy webbing that would be stronger than the small diameter wires we are talking about, and there will be no possibility of rolling as you get with wire, no corrosion issues, no deck staining because you will have places without oxygen for the stainless.

I know I dont use the same webbing for my jackstays - but the webbing strops I use to attach blocks to the toe rails are immensely strong - I had 9 made, and had one tested to destruction - from memory it failed at about 11 tonnes, rather more than might be needed - even if it were me on the end of the tether.

Now theres another issue - I dont see the merit in making the jackstay materially stronger than the lifeline itself (I know you need an allowance to cater for the pull being at an angle to the jackstay).

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[bigmart]

The individual wires break. I am no metallurgist but I understand that Stainless Steel work hardens, & so becomes Brittle, when it is flexed. It is not necessary for this flexing to be a very large amount. I have seen Wire Jackstays with broken individual wires & no sign that they have been bent, at all, & definitely no evidence of permanently kinking.

Either use wire or Webbing but not both is my advice. If the wire broke inside the webbing tube you could not be sure what damage occured before the damage was discovered. Better the devil you know, or at least can see, if you see what I mean.

Martin

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[bedouin]

ORC/RORC are very keen on jackstays. Their recommendation is a minimum wire diameter of 5mm or webbing with a breaking strain of 2 tonnes. (These are not entirely compatible as the breaking strain of 5mm wire is greater than 2 tonnes).

I wouldn't exceed the 5mm as the thicker the wire the more of a hazard it is likely to be under foot.

My personal preference is for thin diameter wire jackstays as I think they are the least hazardous underfoot

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[charles_reed]

No, the wire/tube will still roll underfoot and ensure your precipitation overboard.

I don't know why you're proposing to replace the tape jackstays but I'd recommend sticking to tape, it's far safer.

If you are concerned about UV degradation, make sure the tape ends are not sewn but are knotted onto the pad-eyes. Your tape is likely to have a similar life to 316 stainless wire.

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[charles_reed]

Re: Fixing ends

Don't stitch - that's the weakness of webbing. The stitching UV degrades (unnoticeably) at about x3 the rate of the tape.

The Sydney/Hobart report, for those that are interested, came out against wire jackstays (because of the number of failures at the thimbles) and also recommended against sewn-end tape ones (because of the number that just ripped open under load).

This has not yet been made part of the ORC rules yeat but will almost certainly be included at the next re-issue.

The proposal is definitely regressive and should be urgently re-considered. Though it's your life, remember your duty of care to any crew and that you can be held criminally responsible under Health & Safety if you can be shown to have ignored "best practice". The report is in the public domain.

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[Gunfleet]

Re: Fixing ends

You say 'don't stitch' but what else should one do?

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[charles_reed]

Attach the end

to a large SS ring by a round and two half-hitches.
Carefully done the tape lies flat.

Some do sew the end for neatness sake - any decent rigger or sailmaker will demonstrate how to do it.

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[ponapay]

hy not place the jackstay in ..

a position that you don't walk upon. Say on the coachroof sides, and held at each end of the coach roof.

The siting would be as easy on centre cockpit boats as on aft cockpits. It obviates the underfoot danger, keeps the wires clear of a lot of immersion and enables easier inspection.

Any experts care to comment?



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[LadyInBed]

Re: Fixing ends

Charles, I think you misread my reply. I suggested stiching the webbing hose through the eye at the end of the WIRE jackstay that the webbing was covering.
PS flat webbing water hose is good for this purpose, and its orange.

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[Gunfleet]

Re: Attach the end

It's infuriating that you write this because that's just the way I'd devised for myself, but then I lost my nerve and bought sewn ones recently from Jimmy Green's. Like you I don't really have any confidence in sewn loops (I'm sure they're strong enough when they leave Jimmy Green's - but all that sunlight seems a problem to me). Ah well. Next time. I tend to renew them every couple of years anyway.

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[jimi]

Re: Fixing ends

I hesitate to argue with you as you obviously know what you're talking about, but from my climbing days I'd always use sewn tape as strength apart tape knots have a tendency to come undone unless really tightly bedded. I'd recommend that if you do knot then at least stitch down the loose end of the tape.

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[neil_s]

Re: Attach the end

What about using s/s buckles to secure the ends of the webbing jackstays? These components are common on safety harnesses and would make a very neat eye.

Neil

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