Will Schengen be suspended for two or three years.

[Koeketiene]

Definitely Covid

Doubt if Germany a d other landlocked EU countries will reciprocate.

FYI: Germany is NOT a landlocked country. ?

 

[AndersG]

No relevance in this discussion. It was a message to AndersG who is a Swede about swedish language requirement for citizenship. He correcred me that there is no requirement at this time.

I've not lived there for so long that I had to check on it. Language tests to become a citizen has been brought up many times but so far nothing has happened but it does make sence to me.

 

[BurnitBlue]

1. 
   I do not agree with this so called consensus. The trouble with long posts is that no-one reads them. Try reducing the reasons below in just three sentences.

2. Graham376 in post 6 said that Residence in a state allows 90/180 TRAVEL in other states plus if accompanied by a spouse or such like becomes unlimited travel. These are two seprate issues connected by implication.
   
3. I rebuuted his implication, I believe the 90/180 is a catch all to accomadate all the different resident cards in existance from temporary, student, diplomatic, permanet and others listed in the respective immigration departments. Different conditions apply to certain cards. For instance work, income, student loans, the list is endless and complex. Specific cards have specific exceptions or restrictions. I have no idea what they are specifically.
   
4. Read Graham376 post 10 very carefully. In Particular the statement he forwarded from DG JUST. Here is the relevent sentence from that post. “Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the member state which issued the residence permit”. What can be clearer than that?
   
5. I answered that with my own take on that sentence. It says in black and white that because the member state gave Graham376 more than 90 days in his residence state he is therefore not limited to 90 days in other Schengen states. Graham376 amplified his point in post 14 By bringing in the “transit” rule. (which actually suports my point).
   
6. I rebutted that with the question why it was necessary for a resident to have unlimited time to go home when nowhere in the EU would it take more than 90 days to get there.
   
7. This question was answered by Syvictoria and agreed by Graham 376 in post 32 That it was to allow resisdents to get home to their country of residence if by some means they have used up their 90 days.
   
8. Then Graham376 explained how he thinks the system works in post 37 and calls me a troll. Apparantly a resident does not get his passport stamped when leaving Schengen or between member states. He just shows his resident card and possibly ID.
   
9. Now go back to Grahams post 14 where gives a practical example of how his passport was NOT stamped when he was LEAVING Portugal (his legal residential home) to the UK his citizen state but outside Schengen and the EU. OK if flying connecting two countries he has unlimited time in both. But he is still leaving Schengen. I assume that he would not be allowed to drive through a Schengen state to UK if he had run out of 90 days unless he was accompanied by a spouse etc,. OK no problem. But what happens if he flys to UK and wants to drive back alone and still has no 90 day allowance left? O Ho. A magical exception is already in place for the millions of people (irony) who fimd themselves in that situation. However, why not use existing legislation and demand that he waits 180 days like everyone else, or take his spouse with him? If he wants to get home alone he can fly back whenever he likes on a direct flight. There is no need to give him extra time on his 90 days with an exception that seems to be already in place.
   
10. OK he drives off the ferry in France and with his residence card he is “given” permission to drive “home” despite having no days left and take as long as he wants with no passport stamp to indicate he arrived or indeed that he even left in the first place. All movements seem to be recorded via a resident card which makes the passport an ID document only (for a resident). Is he honour bound to go straight home like a good little boy?
    
11. What happens if he is in Greece when he runs out of 90 days? Alone of course. Can he use the exception to drive home to Portugal without penalty because it his his “home”. This should also apply to non residents from UK who want to drive “home” but have no 90 days left. Alone or with spouse of course. No sir, that will be a 500 euro fine and if you do it again you will be banned from the EU for four years.
    
12. Or is the residence card a tad more powerfull regarding the 90/180 rule than the “miserable”folk who delight in inventing problems assume? I contend it is.

 

[nortada]

FYI: Germany is NOT a landlocked country. ?

Sorry brain fart. Post edited.?

 

[nortada]

1. 
   I do not agree with this so called consensus. The trouble with long posts is that no-one reads them. Try reducing the reasons below in just three sentences.

[*]Graham376 in post 6 said that Residence in a state allows 90/180 TRAVEL in other states plus if accompanied by a spouse or such like becomes unlimited travel. These are two seprate issues connected by implication.

[*] I rebuuted his implication, I believe the 90/180 is a catch all to accomadate all the different resident cards in existance from temporary, student, diplomatic, permanet and others listed in the respective immigration departments. Different conditions apply to certain cards. For instance work, income, student loans, the list is endless and complex. Specific cards have specific exceptions or restrictions. I have no idea what they are specifically.

[*]Read Graham376 post 10 very carefully. In Particular the statement he forwarded from DG JUST. Here is the relevent sentence from that post. “Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the member state which issued the residence permit”. What can be clearer than that?

[*]I answered that with my own take on that sentence. It says in black and white that because the member state gave Graham376 more than 90 days in his residence state he is therefore not limited to 90 days in other Schengen states. Graham376 amplified his point in post 14 By bringing in the “transit” rule. (which actually suports my point).

[*]I rebutted that with the question why it was necessary for a resident to have unlimited time to go home when nowhere in the EU would it take more than 90 days to get there.

[*]This question was answered by Syvictoria and agreed by Graham 376 in post 32 That it was to allow resisdents to get home to their country of residence if by some means they have used up their 90 days.

[*]Then Graham376 explained how he thinks the system works in post 37 and calls me a troll. Apparantly a resident does not get his passport stamped when leaving Schengen or between member states. He just shows his resident card and possibly ID.

[*]Now go back to Grahams post 14 where gives a practical example of how his passport was NOT stamped when he was LEAVING Portugal (his legal residential home) to the UK his citizen state but outside Schengen and the EU. OK if flying connecting two countries he has unlimited time in both. But he is still leaving Schengen. I assume that he would not be allowed to drive through a Schengen state to UK if he had run out of 90 days unless he was accompanied by a spouse etc,. OK no problem. But what happens if he flys to UK and wants to drive back alone and still has no 90 day allowance left? O Ho. A magical exception is already in place for the millions of people (irony) who fimd themselves in that situation. However, why not use existing legislation and demand that he waits 180 days like everyone else, or take his spouse with him? If he wants to get home alone he can fly back whenever he likes on a direct flight. There is no need to give him extra time on his 90 days with an exception that seems to be already in place.

[*]OK he drives off the ferry in France and with his residence card he is “given” permission to drive “home” despite having no days left and take as long as he wants with no passport stamp to indicate he arrived or indeed that he even left in the first place. All movements seem to be recorded via a resident card which makes the passport an ID document only (for a resident). Is he honour bound to go straight home like a good little boy?

[*]What happens if he is in Greece when he runs out of 90 days? Alone of course. Can he use the exception to drive home to Portugal without penalty because it his his “home”. This should also apply to non residents from UK who want to drive “home” but have no 90 days left. Alone or with spouse of course. No sir, that will be a 500 euro fine and if you do it again you will be banned from the EU for four years.

[*]Or is the residence card a tad more powerfull regarding the 90/180 rule than the “miserable”folk who delight in inventing problems assume? I contend it is.
[/LIST]

Priceless.?

On your own admission, it will not effect you but you are determined to argue black is white. ?

Good forum stuff but possibly this is not the right sub-forum.?

Edited In reply to your suggestion for country specific sub-forums (your #87) - good idea.

Because many rules/situations are country specific, sub-forums for major sailing areas (France, Spain, Portugal, Greece etc.) were requested but no reply was forthcoming.

Of course, this wouldn’t apply to Schengen but even there, I wouldn’t be too surprised of some counties interpreted Schengen to their own best advantage or introduced extra legislation to that end (bi-lateral travel agreements).

 

[Alfie168]

Sweden has suffix se. My application took 4 month because of brexit and the different forms of residence from temporary to permanent. It seemed to swing around how long I had lived in Sweden before the WA became the rule on 31 dec 2020. Not easy to do, had to use debit card payments in Swedish shops along with 5 years of bank statements.

Unfortunitely the 90/180 is still not clear for permanent residents visiting other EU member states. Some say that (for instance) Sweden has allowed me to stay inside Schengen permanently so, as there is only one schengen that must also include EU wide Schengen. I take the pessamistic view that my British Passport outside Sweden puts me among the 90/180 group. Hence my keen interest in the future of Schengen and the effect of France suspending immigration and its effect on Schengen. My boat is in Greece. So its life or death.

And there was me thinking SE was the Republic of Southend....

 

[BurnitBlue]

Priceless.?

On your own admission, it will not effect you but you are determined to argue black is white. ?

Good forum stuff but possibly this is not the right sub-forum.?

I have mentioned before that I consider exception to residents in transit to be an offence against logic. I have tried to give my reasons even though I have a work around. But I do object to having my choice restricted to the work around simply because of the unchallenged implication that being allowed 90/180 means that I am not allowed to spend more than 90/180 as a resident of a Schengen state.

Take the Sim card from your phone and nobody has a clue where you are. Greece is an sort of exception with the TL and monthly tax but that only indicates where your boat is.

This honour system idea is ridiculous. Suppose there was no way the speed of your car could be detected. Would any-one break the speed limit, then, because no-one noticed should he report the fact to the Police. Even with a way to detect your speed I don't know any-one with such principles to hand themselves in.

If I am still in Greece after 90 days because of weather or Covid I would just stay there. There is absolutely no way any-one will know how long I have been there.

My sister lives in OZ and she has informed me that all hell has broken loose because the media as just woke up to the law that 8,000 citizens of OZ are prevented from coming home with the threat of 6 month in prison if they try. Just watched a sample on you tube where a barrister is saying that it is not possible for a government to extrapolate and extend a law willy nilly without executive or parliamentry procedure- They quote 8,000 citizens banned but with 150,000 exceptions already made to various people. I kid you not.

Regarding whether this is the roght forum. There you go yet again. This thread is about why or IF a sailboat cruiser is limited to 90 days in 180. WTF do you think this thread should be. Why don't the moderaters give you a thread exclusive to Portugal to shut you up about this.

 

[BurnitBlue]

And there was me thinking SE was the Republic of Southend....

Hi Alfie, Tired of the lounge. I won't go in there any more but I would like to post some stuff on here with tenuous connection but Nortada won't let me-

 

[newtothis]

FYI: Germany is NOT a landlocked country. ?

Sorry brain fart meant Ausreia

FYI: Ausreia is NOT a country.

 

[Graham376]

This honour system idea is ridiculous. Suppose there was no way the speed of your car could be detected. Would any-one break the speed limit, then, because no-one noticed should he report the fact to the Police. Even with a way to detect your speed I don't know any-one with such principles to hand themselves in.

Most visitors to Schengen are tourists and easily tracked by hotels submitting visitors details to authorities, same happens when a boat enters a marina or Schengen port. Those of us with residence are in a minority and expected to stick to the rules, not doing so can lead to deportation, fines and/or bans. Even though we can travel indefinitely with our EU partners, we (and they) still have to register our presence if in any one state >90 days.

 

[nortada]

Hi Alfie, Tired of the lounge. I won't go in there any more but I would like to post some stuff on here with tenuous connection but Nortada won't let me-

Post whatever you like. Others will judge.

As you observe, this is not the Lounge so it is a pity you have had to descend into personal attack mode but there you go.

p.s. I have edited my #85 to reflect your suggestion.

 

[nortada]

Most visitors to Schengen are tourists and easily tracked by hotels submitting visitors details to authorities, same happens when a boat enters a marina or Schengen port. Those of us with residence are in a minority and expected to stick to the rules, not doing so can lead to deportation, fines and/or bans. Even though we can travel indefinitely with our EU partners, we (and they) still have to register our presence if in any one state >90 days.

All true.

Unfortunately most of us do not have EU citizens as partners so we are permited unlimited stay in our resident host EU country but confined to only 90/180 days in the rest of the Schengen Zone.

Of course we can spend as long as we like outside the Schengen Zone and for UK residents this means in the U.K.

Whilst, this could be an interesting discussion into possible future developments, this is the current situation and it would be sad if somebody landed themselves in hot water following make believe, rather than reality.

 

[RAI]

If you do have an EU spouse, then they have problem going to the UK.

 

[Graham376]

If you do have an EU spouse, then they have problem going to the UK.

In our case wife has dual citizenship but, as her Portuguese citizenship is still in maiden name, it doesn't match UK passport married name. Not a problem for the last 50 years but could be fun now

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Priceless.?

On your own admission, it will not effect you but you are determined to argue black is white. ?

Good forum stuff but possibly this is not the right sub-forum.?

Edited In reply to your suggestion for country specific sub-forums (your #87) - good idea.

Because many rules/situations are country specific, sub-forums for major sailing areas (France, Spain, Portugal, Greece etc.) were requested but no reply was forthcoming.

Of course, this wouldn’t apply to Schengen but even there, I wouldn’t be too surprised of some counties interpreted Schengen to their own best advantage or introduced extra legislation to that end (bi-lateral travel agreements).

Why do you keep trying to be the governor of ybw forums .
Please tell me of some of your cruises made in the last couple of years , make it interesting and it might encourage other to come and sail in your area.

 

[Tony Cross]

If I am still in Greece after 90 days because of weather or Covid I would just stay there. There is absolutely no way any-one will know how long I have been there.

This is probably true of almost anywhere and is certainly true of Greece - but only until you come into contact with the State. That might happen for any number of reasons, you might be taken ill for example, hit by a car, be stopped by the police whilst driving, etc. etc. If you don't have a permanent residence card then it's at that point that your right to be in Greece (or wherever) may well be questioned. Unlike 'innocent until proven guilty' you may be required to furnish proof that you have a right to be here; a passport stamp, ferry or flight receipt for example, documenting the date you arrived. 'Flying under the radar' is all well and good until the radar spots you, if it does then you could be in the deep brown smelly stuff.

 

[Bouba]

If you ever watch all those fly on the wall documentaries about immigration staff (from around the world). You always notice how they spend more effort on catching an American in Britain or a Briton in Australia etc. In other words, just like the police would rather give a parking ticket than catch a criminal, they always go for the easiest arrest. Catching illegals and criminals is too much work and the courts are only going to let them go. You and me, on the other hand, are easy and legitimate targets for all lazy authorities

 

[Graham376]

In reply to essay in #83,

To settle the argument, here is a reply I have received from Europe Direct. It confirms UK citizens with residence in one country, are still limited to 90/180 elsewhere unless accompanied by EU spouse/partner.

Regulation (EU) 2018/1806 has been amended to exempt UK nationals intending to visit the EU from the visa requirement for stays of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period.

The above means that you will be able to travel visa free in your own right for a maximum of 90 days in any 180-day period in the EU (except for Portugal where your stay is not limited since you hold residence there).

It also means that you will be exempted from the entry visa requirement when accompanying or joining your spouse to visit the EU, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period (Article 6(2) of the Free Movement Directive).

 

[Alicatt]

According to EU, resident third country citizen's passports should not be stamped when in transit through other Schengen countries to/from their country of residence. If we travel from Portugal where I have residence to another Schengen country, we don't have to report to anyone to book out or back in again. I don't see how getting lost in an airport has a bearing on residence.

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre and apologies for the late reply.

We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit. Residence permit holders are not limited to the maximum period of stay of 90/180 days within the Schengen area as they have a right of residence going beyond these days in the Member State which issued the residence permit.

oh they are being stamped even in your country of residence, there have been lots of comments about it, and people worried about what it will mean when the get to 90 days + 1 from being stamped in

 

[RAI]

oh they are being stamped even in your country of residence, there have been lots of comments about it, and people worried about what it will mean when the get to 90 days + 1 from being stamped in

I think on crossing a Schengen border, the immigration officer is supposed to scan all passports. The computer does the 90 in 180 day calculation for him. Stamps have little value.