Why is the minimum age for Marine Radio Short Range Certificate SRC 16 years?

[Adios]

Minimum age for the RYA powerboat course is 12. Kids of all ages sail dinghies at sea. But not until they are 16 can they use the communication equipment on a boat. In the case i'm thinking of can't use a hand held VHF to communicate between dinghies cruising in company. Am I missing something here? I can't see that anyone ever talked about it on the forum or anywhere online. Seems unlikely that no one else came across this problem.

I assume its an Ofcom decision, probably blanket age for any radio license, but the RYA clearly have a relationship with Ofcom and this is a safety issue, have they tried to change this? I realise children could carry one for an emergency but the idea is to have good communication to avoid an emergency and coaching. I wonder if its even legal for them to have one and monitor it? Clearly unlikely to be caught doing that but can't see why this is even an issue.

Anyone ever tried to get to the bottom of this?

 

[awol]

One possible reason is that they would use them to communicate for trivial reasons like " between dinghies cruising in company". Other things they shouldn't do .........
1. Do not transmit without the authority of the master of the vessel
2. Do not transmit false or deceptive distress or safety signals
3. Do not transmit without identification (i.e. always use your call sign or vessel name)
4. Do not shut down a radio telephone before finishing all operations resulting from a distress, urgency or safety call
5. Do not broadcast (i.e. transmit without specifying a calling station) other than when transmitting a distress
6. Do not transmit music
7. Do not make unnecessary transmissions
8. Do not use profane, indecent or obscene language
9. Do not transmit messages intended to be received ashore, other than by a licensed coast radio station
10 .Do not used unauthorised frequencies

 

[Adios]

You think boats using marine radio to communicate is bound to be trivial and shouldn't be done? There was me thinking that was it's primary purpose.

Surely this issue has occurred to people before? Another example - a 15 year old crew member who could be replying on the radio while you're coming into a harbour. Its not that complicated that kids can't do it with training or that they can't be trusted to be responsible. Its not more complicated or demanding of maturity than other things we are trusting them with if they are on the water, but we're not allowing them a piece of safety equipment. Seems pretty poorly thought out to me.

 

[SaltIre]

A child can transmit on the radio as a crew member, under the supervision and authority of the licence holder - generally the Skipper. I don't consider that a problem.

 

[Sandy]

The minimum age to use a VHF radio will come from either primary of secondary legislation something like, Maritime Labour Convention, 2006: Merchant Shipping (Maritime Labour Convention) (Minimum Age) Regulations. The RYA set their own age limits.

 

[Adios]

I used to think supervised use was ok then looking into today started thinking that even that wasn't allowed but I got that wrong somehow. Exact wording from Ofcom: "To meet our international obligations, both types of UK ship radio licences stipulate that maritime radio apparatus may be operated only by (or under the direct supervision of) a person who holds an appropriate Certificate of Competence and Authority to Operate, granted by the Secretary of State. In this case, that means the MCA."

Could "direct supervision" include while on another nearby boat? In sight and in hearing range of any communication, both radios licensed to me, 1 watt, ship to ship channel, scrambled signal so no need to man up their voices... Could argue it after in the unlikely event of being challenged and hope the book wasn't thrown my way.

Still it just seems contrary to other RYA initiatives. Powerboat course is a good parallel. What madness to encourage 12 year olds to do power-boating!! But just like a radio realistically a 12 year old is only likely to have access to a boat with permission and under some level of supervision by the adult who paid for it. If the kid takes a boat or a radio without permission licensing or not wont change anything but in both cases training might still encourage responsible use. I can only see positives to allowing licensing which can be revoked. Interestingly RYA specify that training is allowed at any age but not the license. I suspect this is Ofcom and the RYA would agree with my thinking on it.

I've tried even the better 500mw walkie talkies a few years ago and they were not up to the standard of a decent marine radio. Plus DSC position monitoring etc. Another level of functionality altogether.

 

[Sandy]

As I mentioned above the RYA make their own rules the radio stuff is legislation.

 

[awol]

Nothing to stop your little darlings using walkie- talkies up in the 300-1000MHz band - they won't need licences

 

[st599]

I used to think supervised use was ok then looking into today started thinking that even that wasn't allowed but I got that wrong somehow. Exact wording from Ofcom: "To meet our international obligations, both types of UK ship radio licences stipulate that maritime radio apparatus may be operated only by (or under the direct supervision of) a person who holds an appropriate Certificate of Competence and Authority to Operate, granted by the Secretary of State. In this case, that means the MCA."

Could "direct supervision" include while on another nearby boat?

No. The skipper of the vessel can allow them to use the radio, but by definition, they have to be on the vessel.

To answer the question why, because that's what the International Telecommunication Union require.

 

[Adios]

No. The skipper of the vessel can allow them to use the radio, but by definition, they have to be on the vessel.

That might be by definition for a ships radio licence but hand held licenses (unless added to a ships licence) are not tied to any vessel so at least its not as clear cut as being by definition. In fact how about the scenario where a ships licence-linked hand-held is taken by an unlicensed person in a tender to drop a kedge or something, would that be allowed? Its still under direct supervision though on another boat. I suspect its just done. Hard to believe this issue doesn't come up more.

To answer the question why, because that's what the International Telecommunication Union require.

Interesting, I suspected it wasn't an RYA decision. Do you happen to know where it is written so i can see the exact wording, i tried searching their website and generally on google and can't find it.

 

[penberth3]

No. The skipper of the vessel can allow them to use the radio, but by definition, they have to be on the vessel.

To answer the question why, because that's what the International Telecommunication Union require.

The quote doesn't mention "skipper", it refers to the certificate holder. I'd agree "direct supervision" implies that person should be on board, I don't think you'd get far trying to argue the point.

 

[awol]

From Ofcom - "Ships’ radio is used for the safe navigation of vessels and for making distress calls in emergency situations. It enables communication with coast stations, port/harbour authorities and with other vessels".
In my quick perusal of Ofcom and other sites it would appear that even the kiddie radios like
that I suggested earlier should be included on the licence! Bogarting a channel for the activities you suggest seems unnecessary.

 

[scottie]

In reality they would most likely use their mobile
Have you ever tried texting on a VHF?

 

[Adios]

From Ofcom - "Ships’ radio is used for the safe navigation of vessels".

Bogarting a channel for the activities you suggest seems unnecessary.

You must have imagined me suggesting activities other than related towards ensuring safe navigation.

 

[Adios]

In reality they would most likely use their mobile
Have you ever tried texting on a VHF?

well you sort of can text message by DSC. But no instagram which might be a deal breaker for some

 

[prv]

I have some sympathy with the OP’s point - but in practice a load of PMR446 walkie-talkies is probably a better choice for a fleet of kids’ dinghies. No licenses needed, and they can chat about anything they like without disturbing anyone else.

Pete

 

[Adios]

I did try a Motorola set a few years back and it was very poor compared to a marine radio in build quality, range and sound quality. I should have specified the use I had in mind, a dinghy sailing in company with parents yacht or 2 dinghies coastal cruising, surely everyone would agree every boat on the sea should have a VHF? I expected everyone could imagine many legitimate uses by under 16 year olds the same as adults using them. Laura Dekker set off around the world at 14 but couldn't use a VHF until 2 years later? I just googled it and see her talking about using SSB. If there was a UN (International Telecommunication Union) set minimum age of 16 as suggested how did she manage that I wonder? The amazing voyage of Laura Dekker, the 15-year-old who sailed round the world alone - Yachting World

It seems bizarre. A PMR446 is no use calling others for help, no use to the RNLI finding you, no use to contact anyone other then the person with the other set in the pair. No GPS, no MOB features, no DSC single button sos, no position tracking with DSC, poor build quality not made for the sea etc. And for what reason? Some bureaucrat arbitrarily deciding no one under 16 might need it or be mature enough to us it.

 

[Telstar26]

The minimum age for RYA Powerboat level 2 is indeed 12, but "Those aged 12-16 should only use powered craft under the supervision of a responsible adult". At our club we interpret that as meaning the adult should be on board!

So it ties in nicely with the VHF minimum age - assuming that the responsible adult has a license

 

[jac]

IIRC the regulations also state that anyone can use the VHF for a genuine emergency. regardless of certificates held ( or not)

 

[Adios]

The minimum age for RYA Powerboat level 2 is indeed 12, but "Those aged 12-16 should only use powered craft under the supervision of a responsible adult". At our club we interpret that as meaning the adult should be on board!

So it ties in nicely with the VHF minimum age - assuming that the responsible adult has a license

The potential for damage to self or others is huge with a powerboat, clubs always err on the side of caution, insurance no doubt plays a part in that decision as well. Other than club rules there is no lower limit for owning or using a boat. Nothing here anyway: Owning a boat or that I've ever heard of. Again insurance requirements for marinas or ports would come into play in practice.

Children can drive tractors from 13 Children and public safety - Agriculture - HSE

But can't use a radio even if owned by an adult and lent to a child to use while some way off on another boat? Its still supervised really isn't it. Pretty much directly, as in same locality at the same time rather than child goes off on their own with it. If a child is allowed to sail a boat on the sea I bet the RNLI would prefer they were allowed to use a VHF.