Why do some of us expect the RNLI to act as a marine recovery service?

[fireball]

It's not used to imply any criticism, it's just easier in comms between CG and lifeboat to describe the vessel we're going to assist as the "casualty", or "casualty vessel".

Blimey ... er ... can't remember the context I said that in ... and without looking it up I'll agree with the comms bit ...

but is a sailboat without a working engine always designated a casualty vessel?
What about sailboats without engines then?

Go back to the original subject title:

Why do some of us expect the RNLI to act as a marine recovery service?

This is to do with OUR perception of the services available to us ... are some of us not just a little guilty of abusing that goodwill - no matter how freely it is given.

 

[Searush]

Blimey ... er ... can't remember the context I said that in ... and without looking it up I'll agree with the comms bit ...

but is a sailboat without a working engine always designated a casualty vessel?
What about sailboats without engines then?

(snip).

Only if they request help. Did you not read, or just not understand the post?

Back to main point;
Sure some people abuse the system, & possibly more often in the Solent. That's just human nature isn't it? You actually can't change that & the changes you suggest will impact adversely on the majority of sensible users without having any impact on the tossers. I know you enjoy a fight, but are you not yet seeing ANY sense?

Would you like me to send you another shovel so you can keep digging?

 

[Boathook]

Should RNLI members (as a suitable subs rate) get preferential treatment over non members ?

 

[Searush]

Should RNLI members (as a suitable subs rate) get preferential treatment over non members ?

NO

Bloody daft idea, loads of people on the beaches & cliff walks would die.

Please go have a read of the RNLI site to remind yourself what they do.

 

[jordanbasset]

The RNLI is one of the jewels of the U.K. and tamper with it at your peril.
We seem to be searching for a solution to a problem that does not exist

 

[Cardo]

The RNLI is one of the jewels of the U.K. and tamper with it at your peril.
We seem to be searching for a solution to a problem that does not exist

+1

 

[DogWatch]

The RNLI is one of the jewels of the U.K. and tamper with it at your peril.
We seem to be searching for a solution to a problem that does not exist

Luckily a bunch of townie weekend sailors don't get a say in what is still an institution run by the willing...

 

[dt4134]

107 posts, sorry 108, trying to fix something that isn't broke. Are people getting bored of anchors?

 

[mixmaster]

Agree. Fine as it is. If you don't want help, don't ask for it. If you need it or want it, they're very happy to give it. I have asked for help in the past and was very thankful for it. I have also sailed in places where such a luxury is not available.

I find there is sometimes the attitude on this forum that unless you have done a 10 year apprenticeship with an old sea salt and start with a small boat which you keep for years and years then you have no place on the water. I'm sure many people on here took risks when younger and didn't need help by virtue of luck. No one is perfect.

 

[Litotes]

Should RNLI members (as a suitable subs rate) get preferential treatment over non members ?

I spend a lot of my time working for no payment with a small voluntary organisation. Nothing to do with the sea, but I think it's a worthwhile cause and makes a real difference to the quality of life for people who have very little.

We have members, but our services are there for anyone, no matter who they are, who may need them. No questions asked.

The day we start offering preferential treatment for members will be the day I walk away. Our members are members for the same reason that I am a volunteer. We think it's worth doing.

 

[fireball]

Only if they request help. Did you not read, or just not understand the post?

Back to main point;
Sure some people abuse the system, & possibly more often in the Solent. That's just human nature isn't it? You actually can't change that & the changes you suggest will impact adversely on the majority of sensible users without having any impact on the tossers. I know you enjoy a fight, but are you not yet seeing ANY sense?

Would you like me to send you another shovel so you can keep digging?

Sorry- what have I suggested that will adversely impact the majority of sensible users?

and yes - a shovel would be handy ... can you carry on taking away the dirt?

 

[fireball]

I find there is sometimes the attitude on this forum that unless you have done a 10 year apprenticeship with an old sea salt and start with a small boat which you keep for years and years then you have no place on the water. I'm sure many people on here took risks when younger and didn't need help by virtue of luck. No one is perfect.

I have no doubt that many on here started in small boats going on short trips and getting into little scrapes - I did - and learnt by it ...

These days it seems to be the norm to buy a upper 30'er put life jackets on and go out to sea with no real 'experience' ...
Not everyone needs to be a salty seadog - but some degree of seamanship would be beneficial ...
TBH if the Solent wasn't on my doorstep I wouldn't sail here - the amount of radio checks and dubious sounding calls for help does detract from my general enjoyment of the sport - I could turn the radio off, but I think that's also my responsibility to offer assistance when needed - and have done on several occaisions.

 

[onesea]

I find there is sometimes the attitude on this forum that unless you have done a 10 year apprenticeship with an old sea salt and start with a small boat which you keep for years and years then you have no place on the water. I'm sure many people on here took risks when younger and didn't need help by virtue of luck. No one is perfect.

Your apprenticeship/ syllabus idea would be ideal although I would suggest you include a little racing to

It does seem to be the best most accepted way of becoming a good all round sailor, its just not every one has the opportunity to take that route.

Some of the RYA courses the "sea" time required IMHO is insufficient. I get the feeling on here that there is a growing opinion the courses also tend to leave people feeling to confident.

The problem is that experience counts and the only way to get that is afloat and working on your boat.

We all take risks every time we go near the water, the problem with boating is there are always unforeseen ones...

What the correct solution is I do not know, with a new to me boat this year I should be careful what I say. I am aware that I am a high risk boat for the next year or 2

Maybe that leaves another question (should it be for another thread), maybe some one should make a survey?

How would you feel if you had to call the lifeboat?

Personally I would say ashamed mistakes can happen but as a boat owner I should be able to get myself home.

 

[Juan Twothree]

How would you feel if you had to call the lifeboat?

Personally I would say ashamed mistakes can happen but as a boat owner I should be able to get myself home.

Well you shouldn't feel ashamed. We need to get rid of this perception that anyone who needs rescuing is at fault in some way. The media is partly responsible for this, and in the case of kids on lilos or inflatable dinghies in offshore winds they do have a point.

But most of the incidents my particular lifeboat gets called to are to well-kept boats, with very competent crew, which have simply suffered misfortune of some sort.


Yes, we all make mistakes, and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But some of the rescues I've been involved in would have been a lot simpler, and quicker, if the skipper had swallowed their pride a few hours earlier and asked for help before things became more serious.

Although lifeboats are indeed there to save lives, I'd much rather deal with a situation before it becomes life-threatening!

 

[Robin]

Well you shouldn't feel ashamed. We need to get rid of this perception that anyone who needs rescuing is at fault in some way. The media is partly responsible for this, and in the case of kids on lilos or inflatable dinghies in offshore winds they do have a point.

But most of the incidents my particular lifeboat gets called to are to well-kept boats, with very competent crew, which have simply suffered misfortune of some sort.


Yes, we all make mistakes, and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But some of the rescues I've been involved in would have been a lot simpler, and quicker, if the skipper had swallowed their pride a few hours earlier and asked for help before things became more serious.

Although lifeboats are indeed there to save lives, I'd much rather deal with a situation before it becomes life-threatening!

Well said.

We were embarrassed by being taken into harbour by the French Lifeboat as reported earlier, but not at all ashamed and the French crew were well aware of the dangers in the Raz de Sein where we were and that they were 8mls away making a late call potentially very serious.

Having had our engine problem sorted we spent the night on Audierne marina hammerhead and later had another Brit boat rafted outside us. This was a boat returning north after a race to the Morbihan that had taken them through the Raz in very light wind conditions and they had a little bit of 'well you could have sailed' attitude. Our case was different however, because southbound with no wind and no power you still couldn't hit the rocks if you tried but once the northbound tide was running you very easily could. The funny thing was that a few months later we saw a picture of this very same boat parked very neatly on a rock and high and dry, totally out of the water and balanced on it's Scheel keel.

 

[alant]

Your apprenticeship/ syllabus idea would be ideal although I would suggest you include a little racing to

It does seem to be the best most accepted way of becoming a good all round sailor, its just not every one has the opportunity to take that route.

Some of the RYA courses the "sea" time required IMHO is insufficient. I get the feeling on here that there is a growing opinion the courses also tend to leave people feeling to confident.

The problem is that experience counts and the only way to get that is afloat and working on your boat.

We all take risks every time we go near the water, the problem with boating is there are always unforeseen ones...

What the correct solution is I do not know, with a new to me boat this year I should be careful what I say. I am aware that I am a high risk boat for the next year or 2

Maybe that leaves another question (should it be for another thread), maybe some one should make a survey?

How would you feel if you had to call the lifeboat?

Personally I would say ashamed mistakes can happen but as a boat owner I should be able to get myself home.

"Some of the RYA courses the "sea" time required IMHO is insufficient. I get the feeling on here that there is a growing opinion the courses also tend to leave people feeling to confident.

The problem is that experience counts and the only way to get that is afloat and working on your boat."

As has oft been stated, the RYA courses, particularly DS, are similar to a new car driver passing their test (not just someone age 17, but also elderly ladies, for example). They are not experienced, but have the basic skills/knowledge to start upon a driving learning curve, which will, gain them that experience.

Even as a YM or Instructor with experience, you will still be learning & also make mistakes (but hopefully get out of any trouble easier).

What is sufficient "sea time"?

I'm still trying to learn.

 

[fireball]

What is sufficient "sea time"?

Oh - about 70 years ...

 

[Searush]

Oh - about 70 years ...

But then there are other problems like not being able to get up off the saloon floor after fixing the engine, forgetting where you put the tide tables, not being able to read tide tables or chart cos you sat on your glasses, etc etc.

Sailing is never easy. That's what makes it so much fun.

 

[fireball]

But then there are other problems like not being able to get up off the saloon floor after fixing the engine, forgetting where you put the tide tables, not being able to read tide tables or chart cos you sat on your glasses, etc etc.

Sailing is never easy. That's what makes it so much fun.

I'll let you know when I get to 70 years experience ... only about 1/2 that atm!

 

[onesea]

But then there are other problems like not being able to get up off the saloon floor after fixing the engine, forgetting where you put the tide tables, not being able to read tide tables or chart cos you sat on your glasses, etc etc.

Sailing is never easy. That's what makes it so much fun.

No one told me I had to wait 70 years to have the above problems

I know I am going to get flamed for this but:

Maybe you should be able to sit the exams and pass them as you can now. Then have to do another set mileage etc before being awarded the certificate?

It would make it more realistic for the candidates to know where they are in the scheme of things??? Whilst getting them to exercise there knowledge afterwards?