Why are Oyster Yachts so expensive?
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Nostrodamus
Well-Known Member
Thank you. There was a editor of a magazine that was intrested in printing some of the blogs but when he read them he decided he could only print the word "and" and even that would have a disclaimer.
tonyinspain
New Member
I know they have a fantastic reputation for quality and sturdiness, but is 1 Oyster really worth 3 Jeanneaus?[/QUOTE
Mid atlantic in a force 11 ,30 ft high waves what deck would a yachtsman choose to be standing on,plastic fantastic jeaneua ,3 of them ,or a bomb proof over engineered oyster ??
if one can afford it theres no question ?
VO5
Well-Known Member
I have had a good look at their website.
I concede they are luxurious.
But they do not enthuse me.
One would think one is occupying a luxury flat afloat.
Personally I like a yacht to be shiplike, not luxury flat like.
And that is my personal opinion. Others are free to differ.
I conceed the gear is excellent.
However, nothing stops owners from upgrading to higher specs by choice.
They cater for a certain market no doubt.
It is not a choice I would personally make, leaving the cost out of the equation altogether. The same goes for Hinkleys and other comparable marques.
I concede they are luxurious.
But they do not enthuse me.
One would think one is occupying a luxury flat afloat.
Personally I like a yacht to be shiplike, not luxury flat like.
And that is my personal opinion. Others are free to differ.
I conceed the gear is excellent.
However, nothing stops owners from upgrading to higher specs by choice.
They cater for a certain market no doubt.
It is not a choice I would personally make, leaving the cost out of the equation altogether. The same goes for Hinkleys and other comparable marques.
npf1
Well-Known Member
I know they have a fantastic reputation for quality and sturdiness, but is 1 Oyster really worth 3 Jeanneaus?[/QUOTE
Mid atlantic in a force 11 ,30 ft high waves what deck would a yachtsman choose to be standing on,plastic fantastic jeaneua ,3 of them ,or a bomb proof over engineered oyster ??
if one can afford it theres no question ?
One can't help wondering how much of this reputation stems from their wonderful marketing and if it is also bourne out by the deign statisitics.
I'd be interested to see a stability study of one to see if they really are 'bombproof' compared to many other yachts on the market. For example, how does their AVS compare? Would be also good to know if the rigs are designed based on a righting moment of 30 degrees (as most modern boats are) or 40 degrees (as some boats are).
They are lovely yachts, without doubt, but I'd not really noticed that the fittings etc are significantly stronger or larger than many other boats out there.
Nostrodamus
Well-Known Member
If you own one they will come...
Once you do own one you know every part is quality, you feel safe and would find it difficult to ever change to another make... enough said.
Once you do own one you know every part is quality, you feel safe and would find it difficult to ever change to another make... enough said.
jonic
Well-Known Member
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Has that always applied? I was on their new boats at the show this year. Good build quality, but not consistent across the range.
Several years ago I had a good look at new ones at the London show. Very disappointed in the build quality.
I have heard that the really old ones were better.
Is this because of the different actual builders and change in ownership?
bob234
Well-Known Member
A friend has a 2006 Oyster 46. She is very attractive (the boat) and beautifully finished. My own boat is a Bavaria 47 Ocean (ie centre cockpit with 'deck saloon' style of windows) bought new in 2001 before they started to get into charter.
I often compare the boats when we have sailed in the Aegean together because I have long lusted after an Oyster. I'm not saying they are 'comparable' boats as such, just that I have compared them.
Both have lead keels but the Oyster displaces about 17 tonnes to our 13 so there must be a lot of substance in there mainly, I believe, in the internal furnishings (solid wood instead of laminate on ply etc). But both have similar quality marine fittings on them. We have Harken winches and a Selden rig for instance. Both are masthead rigged etc. The Oyster has a skeg. Both are shaft driven.
The sails are better on the Oyster. The Oyster has a taller rig to go with the higher displacement. The Bavaria is faster up to force 5. My guess is the Oyster would be more comfortable upwind in a blow but that's a guess. The Oyster has the same silly folding cockpit table as the Bavaria. The Oyster side decks don't creak.
Side by side, the Oyster is shorter by a foot and a half but has more volume and that volume is taken pretty well to a more vertical stern, so more useable space.
Down below the Bavaria has MUCH better engine room access and space and a much larger separate shower area. The Oyster has a much more usable second heads than the small one on the Bavaria. The internal woodwork on the Oyster is beautifully done with much more joiner work whereas we have lots of exposed screw heads and open ended ply in hidden areas. The soft furnishings on the Oyster are FAR better in terms of both the fabric and the cushions themselves.
The problems on each of our boats over the years have usually been to do with the bits bolted on, or the way they have been bolted on, rather than the boats themselves (despite what people generally think about Bavarias).
But he has had lots of problems which I just haven't had. He is into his second gearbox after lots of repairs to the first mainly due to installation issues. He had problems with engine mounts. Silly little things like door latches that drop off on the Oyster were a surprise. But, as had been said before, Oyster have responded well but they have had to.
Centre cockpit boats cost more to build than aft cockpit because there is a larger overall volume and more furniture inside the c/cockpit. Bavaria didn't make much if any margin on their centre cockpits which is why they stopped making them in favour of pile it high and sell it cheap. So, had there been a sensible margin the price would have been more (but the dealers would have had to have been better at selling a more expensive product than they were).
So, part of the price difference is down to the margin that Bavaria didn't make. On top of that I can see where a significant part of the price goes in terms of quality of finish and to a lesser extent in the quality of build.
Would I prefer the Oyster? Too bloody right I would. I think they look beautiful (generation 4 looking better than g5 in my view) and are far better finished. But if I was paying £700+k for a boat I would want more than 46ft. I had to throw a lot of gear at the Bavaria to bring it up to spec but it still costs less than a third of the price of my friend's Oyster (admittedly bought 5 years earlier).
So, I still can't see enough to justify all of the price difference which I think tends to support the views expressed by a previous poster about lumpy margins being made. Plus, I suspect, some inefficiency which tends to arise in businesses who haven't had to compete very hard for a number of years and also because of lower production.
I would still love one though!
That's my penny worth anyway.
Cheers,
Bob
I often compare the boats when we have sailed in the Aegean together because I have long lusted after an Oyster. I'm not saying they are 'comparable' boats as such, just that I have compared them.
Both have lead keels but the Oyster displaces about 17 tonnes to our 13 so there must be a lot of substance in there mainly, I believe, in the internal furnishings (solid wood instead of laminate on ply etc). But both have similar quality marine fittings on them. We have Harken winches and a Selden rig for instance. Both are masthead rigged etc. The Oyster has a skeg. Both are shaft driven.
The sails are better on the Oyster. The Oyster has a taller rig to go with the higher displacement. The Bavaria is faster up to force 5. My guess is the Oyster would be more comfortable upwind in a blow but that's a guess. The Oyster has the same silly folding cockpit table as the Bavaria. The Oyster side decks don't creak.
Side by side, the Oyster is shorter by a foot and a half but has more volume and that volume is taken pretty well to a more vertical stern, so more useable space.
Down below the Bavaria has MUCH better engine room access and space and a much larger separate shower area. The Oyster has a much more usable second heads than the small one on the Bavaria. The internal woodwork on the Oyster is beautifully done with much more joiner work whereas we have lots of exposed screw heads and open ended ply in hidden areas. The soft furnishings on the Oyster are FAR better in terms of both the fabric and the cushions themselves.
The problems on each of our boats over the years have usually been to do with the bits bolted on, or the way they have been bolted on, rather than the boats themselves (despite what people generally think about Bavarias).
But he has had lots of problems which I just haven't had. He is into his second gearbox after lots of repairs to the first mainly due to installation issues. He had problems with engine mounts. Silly little things like door latches that drop off on the Oyster were a surprise. But, as had been said before, Oyster have responded well but they have had to.
Centre cockpit boats cost more to build than aft cockpit because there is a larger overall volume and more furniture inside the c/cockpit. Bavaria didn't make much if any margin on their centre cockpits which is why they stopped making them in favour of pile it high and sell it cheap. So, had there been a sensible margin the price would have been more (but the dealers would have had to have been better at selling a more expensive product than they were).
So, part of the price difference is down to the margin that Bavaria didn't make. On top of that I can see where a significant part of the price goes in terms of quality of finish and to a lesser extent in the quality of build.
Would I prefer the Oyster? Too bloody right I would. I think they look beautiful (generation 4 looking better than g5 in my view) and are far better finished. But if I was paying £700+k for a boat I would want more than 46ft. I had to throw a lot of gear at the Bavaria to bring it up to spec but it still costs less than a third of the price of my friend's Oyster (admittedly bought 5 years earlier).
So, I still can't see enough to justify all of the price difference which I think tends to support the views expressed by a previous poster about lumpy margins being made. Plus, I suspect, some inefficiency which tends to arise in businesses who haven't had to compete very hard for a number of years and also because of lower production.
I would still love one though!
That's my penny worth anyway.
Cheers,
Bob
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting if anyone had real data about the true cost of ownership. With any large investment, the most important "cost" is the loss you make when you resell.
Money is cheap at the moment. With the stock markets plummeting there is an argument that your pension fund (if only it could) would be far better off buying a boat!
A good friend of mine paid £300k for a French production boat. 3 years later he sold it for half of that. With money at 4% or so, I would rather spend double that on something that held its value.
Money is cheap at the moment. With the stock markets plummeting there is an argument that your pension fund (if only it could) would be far better off buying a boat!
A good friend of mine paid £300k for a French production boat. 3 years later he sold it for half of that. With money at 4% or so, I would rather spend double that on something that held its value.
Nostrodamus
Well-Known Member
As a family (four of us) we live full time aboard our 1997 Oyster 45 full time.
This year we have cruised slowly down from Hull to La Rochelle in France and along the way we have visited so many places. Not once has she let us down. In fact it is more me who let her down with some of my antics.
She has looked after us in all kinds of weather including the type where you end up promising your boat all sorts if she just gets you where you are going.
I am now giving her the thorough clean I promised her. What does amaze me is how you can get at every system on the boat, how every panel is individually made, and shaped. Even inside bathroom cupboards there is an individually made removable wood and covering headlining. No panel on and Oyster my boats age will fit another boat. Every Oyster is totally individual although one 45 looks the same as the next. Options have been included along the way to owners specifications (try asking HR to customise a boat). Most items are over engineered.
Everybody who comes aboard believes she is only a couple of years old. When I tell them they are truly amazed.
It does not matter if you buy a new or used Oyster, you are still part of the family and will receive and aftersales service you require. Cross on the ARC or go on an Oyster Rally and you will find a team of riggers and engineers there to give your boat a free check-up from stem to stern.
I can only say what I find and in the end I have a boat I can trust to keep my family safe. That in itself is beyond and monetary considerations.
There is also a belief amongst many that because you have an Oyster you have money. I know there are plenty like us who have sold everything to buy one and live on a very, very tight budget. Yes we could have bought a cheaper boat and had more money but after years of looking we bought what was right for us and in the end surely that is what buying a boat is about.
(Anyone else want to throw a hook in so I can bite?)
This year we have cruised slowly down from Hull to La Rochelle in France and along the way we have visited so many places. Not once has she let us down. In fact it is more me who let her down with some of my antics.
She has looked after us in all kinds of weather including the type where you end up promising your boat all sorts if she just gets you where you are going.
I am now giving her the thorough clean I promised her. What does amaze me is how you can get at every system on the boat, how every panel is individually made, and shaped. Even inside bathroom cupboards there is an individually made removable wood and covering headlining. No panel on and Oyster my boats age will fit another boat. Every Oyster is totally individual although one 45 looks the same as the next. Options have been included along the way to owners specifications (try asking HR to customise a boat). Most items are over engineered.
Everybody who comes aboard believes she is only a couple of years old. When I tell them they are truly amazed.
It does not matter if you buy a new or used Oyster, you are still part of the family and will receive and aftersales service you require. Cross on the ARC or go on an Oyster Rally and you will find a team of riggers and engineers there to give your boat a free check-up from stem to stern.
I can only say what I find and in the end I have a boat I can trust to keep my family safe. That in itself is beyond and monetary considerations.
There is also a belief amongst many that because you have an Oyster you have money. I know there are plenty like us who have sold everything to buy one and live on a very, very tight budget. Yes we could have bought a cheaper boat and had more money but after years of looking we bought what was right for us and in the end surely that is what buying a boat is about.
(Anyone else want to throw a hook in so I can bite?)
bob234
Well-Known Member
Completely agree.
And you avoided the £700k price tag of the 46 (45's successor) by buying second hand. Having had 6 new boats over the last 20 years I think if I get another boat it will be a second hand Oyster (or Najad or Contest) rather than a new Jeanneau (to link back to the OP's initial question).
Only dreaming though as retirement precludes me from boat changing nowadays!
Cheers,
Bob
DickB
Well-Known Member
Agreed 100%
Could not agree more.... Loved my Bavaria, but I love my Oyster 100 times more.... Above description is spot on...
Could not agree more.... Loved my Bavaria, but I love my Oyster 100 times more.... Above description is spot on...
bob234
Well-Known Member
Hi Dick,
Glad you loved the Bavaria 42 Ocean. I must say the 47 Ocean we bought is not as well fitted below as the 42 was (you might recognise the link between us now if you hadn't already). Not surprised you love the Oyster more though!
Did you do the ARC on the Oyster or with someone else? (with apologies for thread drift).
Cheers,
Bob
mucklestone
Well-Known Member
Just remember that it is the same with cars. If you have a ford or opel there are hundreds of thousands of them around so you hear of lots of problems because they are so common.
Whereas there are very few Rolls Royce or Bentleys around and you hear of very few problems yet I know they do go wrong and have a lot of problems. (the factory is near us)
Boats are the same. There are hundreds of jeanneau's to every one oyster. Which do you think you will hear more problems with??
I am sure there are many problem free jeanneaus and many oysters with a few problems.
Whereas there are very few Rolls Royce or Bentleys around and you hear of very few problems yet I know they do go wrong and have a lot of problems. (the factory is near us)
Boats are the same. There are hundreds of jeanneau's to every one oyster. Which do you think you will hear more problems with??
I am sure there are many problem free jeanneaus and many oysters with a few problems.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Oyster still have my 37s build file 31 yrs on.
can that be said for benny blobbies
Nostrodamus
Well-Known Member
If I ring or e mail Oyster they pull out my build file and know instantly what I am talking about. They also produce bulletens each year of things to look at, things to check and any other useful information. They can also contact about 98% of their owners if they need to. Do benny ever want to contact their owners unless it is to sell them anothe boat?
bob234
Well-Known Member
DaiB
Well-Known Member
After sales
I am on the mailing list so get the magazine and annual calendar, invite to the Oyster stand at every boat show, where I can leave my coat if needed, plus complimentary coffee or a drink. Last year had a bowthruster problem so rang them up and they were able to tell me the maker, model and serial number plus offer for spares sourcing. The boat is 31 years old and we are the fourth owners. So I think you could put down "good after sales service' as part of the price you pay. We have had ours for 15 years and no intention of changing but if I did it would be for another Oyster.
I am on the mailing list so get the magazine and annual calendar, invite to the Oyster stand at every boat show, where I can leave my coat if needed, plus complimentary coffee or a drink. Last year had a bowthruster problem so rang them up and they were able to tell me the maker, model and serial number plus offer for spares sourcing. The boat is 31 years old and we are the fourth owners. So I think you could put down "good after sales service' as part of the price you pay. We have had ours for 15 years and no intention of changing but if I did it would be for another Oyster.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
we own a 79 boat & the second owners, the first owned her for 18 yrs