Magnum
RIP
I know they have a fantastic reputation for quality and sturdiness, but is 1 Oyster really worth 3 Jeanneaus?
Why are Oyster Yachts so expensive?
- Thread starter Magnum
- Start date
SimbaDog
Well-Known Member
I think it's probably to pay for all the posh totty they employ at boatshows to keep the riff raff from getting on their boats 
doris
Well-Known Member
So that sink in the South Atlantic with more style. Lots of fingers in the pie to be kept sticky!
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I suspect that the depreciation on a new Oyster the moment you first drive it away is enough to buy a J boat. Having sailed a Oyster once for a longish period, I'd say yes,
1 it's a lot to do with owner confidence, knowing all the bits work, and
2 that other sailors are saying, ooh, look at that Oyster, as you pass.
Brand reputation is not easily won if the kit does not work. Oyster owners are picky blighters
1 it's a lot to do with owner confidence, knowing all the bits work, and
2 that other sailors are saying, ooh, look at that Oyster, as you pass.
Brand reputation is not easily won if the kit does not work. Oyster owners are picky blighters
lydiamight
Well-Known Member
An ex-colleague of mine was looking to buy a new Oyster but decided against it because he thought that they hed their heads so far up their own a**es they were invisible. Despite being prepared to spend serious amounts of money Oyster spent their entire time looking down their noses at him. Eventually bought a Najad were he he had exemplary service.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
I remember reading on here a little while ago about a new Oyster that had been delivered to its Owners with so many things wrong that the list of things to put right was literally pages...... (oh, and Gludy was not involved with it! 
)
And as for that Oyster pottering about in the South Atlantic recently, encountering a growler (I think while hove to in a gale?) and subsequently sinking, methinks that this incident would be a strong case for having a metal hull and / or watertight subdivision (ie bulkheads) when sailing in these latitudes.
Or were they simply unlucky (I am sure that Oysters are properly built to approved standards), especially when we consider the number of Volvo 60s that hurtle around the globe at break-neck speeds in these latitudes?
)And as for that Oyster pottering about in the South Atlantic recently, encountering a growler (I think while hove to in a gale?) and subsequently sinking, methinks that this incident would be a strong case for having a metal hull and / or watertight subdivision (ie bulkheads) when sailing in these latitudes.
Or were they simply unlucky (I am sure that Oysters are properly built to approved standards), especially when we consider the number of Volvo 60s that hurtle around the globe at break-neck speeds in these latitudes?
asteven221
Well-Known Member
Not IMHO - I just can't see how they can be. Lovely boats, better joinery, but that's about it from what I can see.
grumpygit
Well-Known Member
We looked at Oyster's, used of course, but still well out of our league or they where just old sheds. This might show that even Oysters don't stand the test of time. Also looked at the new ones at the boat shows just out of interest. A few years ago they looked the canine genatilia, the last one we looked at 3/4 years ago at Southampton looked sh......below decks. Not what you'd expect for 3.something mil, ( think it was around 70') probably poetic licence to the designers and sharp pencils from the accountants. Saw a lot better for a fraction of the money.
It only goes to show it's the profit that makes things expensive !
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photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Any and every new boat is gonna have snags... I think that Gludy's example is a excellent one were in fact a new production boat would have been a better option... low volume means more snags I suspect... and custom build loads...
There is something to be said for CNC cutting and mass production.... Amazing that Nissan can churn out a gazzilion cars with only 10 breaking down... but you had to have the RAC follow you around if you bought a new TVR...
There is something to be said for CNC cutting and mass production.... Amazing that Nissan can churn out a gazzilion cars with only 10 breaking down... but you had to have the RAC follow you around if you bought a new TVR...
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Absolute rubbish. I drove a Chimera all the way from Manchester to London without any trouble at all.
Mind you, it broke down twice on the way back.
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
If I had the money to buy a new Oyster, I think I would look very hard at the aternatives, including the Discovery boats, one which I was very happily shown at a boat show despite making it clear that I was only satisfying my curiosity. Oyster could learn something, I think. For a tough heavy displacement boat for long distances I was also shown a very nice Taiwan built yacht a few years ago (Queen Long Shipyard?) which was much cheaper than an Oyster but looked very well built.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Dockhead
Well-Known Member
I almost bought one last year. Had a signed contract and even a deposit paid. I think the H&P designed 485 is one of the most gorgeous and most gorgeously engineered yachts I have ever seen. Certainly worth three Jeanneaus, in my book, although I think Jeanneaus are pretty decent boats. A BMW M3 costs three times what a VW Golf costs. I don't know why anyone is surprised. The difference between Oyster and Jeanneau is, if anything, still wider than that.
The problem I had, and the reason I ended up with a Moody instead, was that the relatively reasonable cost of a used Oyster turned out to be associated with an extreme degree of wear. It was my mistake; I thought I could get a decent 485 less than 10 years old for less than 300k GBP, but it turned out that all those on sale had been run back and forth across the Atlantic, had been very heavily used and depleted, and had not been kept up very well, not to say, that they were all knackered. So I was not comparing like-to-like with other boats; the average 10-year old Oyster has got 3x or 5x the miles on it than the average 10-year old anything else and so the apparently reasonable price is deceptive.
I ended up with a very lightly used Moody at probably half the cost of a like Oyster in like condition (if you could even find it). The key phrase here is in like condition. I am well pleased with the Moody. She is not quite as totally superlative as the Oyster, but I love her more and more the more I know her; she was designed with love and intelligence and shows it everywhere (bless you Bill Dixon). She is not worth three Jeanneaus, but she's definitely worth more than the one and a half which she cost.
I like the last generation of Humphry designed Oysters a lot less. They have lost some of that extraordinary elegance and harmony of line which the H&P ones had. Too bad.
The problem I had, and the reason I ended up with a Moody instead, was that the relatively reasonable cost of a used Oyster turned out to be associated with an extreme degree of wear. It was my mistake; I thought I could get a decent 485 less than 10 years old for less than 300k GBP, but it turned out that all those on sale had been run back and forth across the Atlantic, had been very heavily used and depleted, and had not been kept up very well, not to say, that they were all knackered. So I was not comparing like-to-like with other boats; the average 10-year old Oyster has got 3x or 5x the miles on it than the average 10-year old anything else and so the apparently reasonable price is deceptive.
I ended up with a very lightly used Moody at probably half the cost of a like Oyster in like condition (if you could even find it). The key phrase here is in like condition. I am well pleased with the Moody. She is not quite as totally superlative as the Oyster, but I love her more and more the more I know her; she was designed with love and intelligence and shows it everywhere (bless you Bill Dixon). She is not worth three Jeanneaus, but she's definitely worth more than the one and a half which she cost.
I like the last generation of Humphry designed Oysters a lot less. They have lost some of that extraordinary elegance and harmony of line which the H&P ones had. Too bad.
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michael_w
Well-Known Member
Within the constraints of the mould, they are effectively a custom build. Anything and everything is specific for each boat. Such build practice isn't cheap....
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Only if you believe it is!
Just like cars, basic models do the job - maybe 80-90% perfection. It is the last 10-15% that costs the money, and is mainly eaten up by more and more people spending more and more time on it rather than superior "concrete" materials. Paying the high entry cost only makes sense if the extra cost is reflected in the residual. That is high residuals offset high entry costs. May work (as with HRs) when the price on new entry is rising constantly, as in the last 10 years, but may not be the same in the future.
Oysters have done well riding a rising market by holding residuals for first owners - but as already noted, they are not immune from value drops due to excessive use and changes in fashion.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
We bought a slightly neglected 1984 Oyster. When we had cleaned her up a bit, we began to realise that they are a quality yacht. Real woodwork down below with proper joints. An engine installation which is very quiet and well near vibrationless. They might not be worth the money new now, but they are certainly worth the money second hand.
tcm
...
Quite right, the answer is No. Oyster have lost the plot somewhere along the line towards telling real potential buyers who might easily turn up in krap clothes (me, not you) to Get Lost. Hence i won't ever buy an Oyster, nor a Porsche (ok, i was 16 but still, not very good i think at emptyish boat/car shows)
In a previous life I had a chance to see Oyster accounts at close quarters and loads of the work is contracted out, nice margin on top to Oyster and then another 40% on top of that to the customer. I also had a good look at the fitout and its ok but not in the least bit mindblowing - same switchgear in the saloon as a beneteau, non-marine quality screws around the companionway and so on. Discovery is trying harder but neither are a patch on Nordia Van Dam if you are really gonna hit the high notes in this sector- the dutch, belgians and germans build, paint and maintain their *houses* better than an Oyster. Inside a Nordia you start to wonder if some things really are made of wood or sort of "moulded" - the fit and finish is so good. All these more cruisy than racy, though, not OMG showstoppers.
Get a look at the Wally for crissakes, the only boat for which i send crew out on the dinghy to chase and take digipix. Also, praps look for a physical boat, not a new ooer this might work sort of thing and then they go bust and blah blah. No, i don't listen to me either...
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Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Dear Mr Magnum,
I have refrained from enjoining in your series of perceptive, 'right on the button' questions until this 'un where I feel I might actually have something to add.
As I am sure you know you get what you pay for in this world, Oyster are not perhaps like that 3point german vehicle trading on its past reputation..and the initial price is quickly forgotten 6 months down the line when you 'grow' into the new smart purchase and start to get an insight into just what you have bought and the effort taken in getting that product to you. And then when you care to move on, those qualities remain eagerly sought after.
I would refer you to Hinckleys but, strangely and like Oyster, there are precious few on the s/h market..BTW imo they are -quite possibly- even nicer boats..
If you really don't need 60 feet for 2 people, I would earnestly urge you to have a serious look at a new, built to order Rustler 42, imho the dogs danglies and with impeccable handling and resale, do-anything capability and great looks to boot! ( I am a wee bit biased toward their products)..
I have refrained from enjoining in your series of perceptive, 'right on the button' questions until this 'un where I feel I might actually have something to add.
As I am sure you know you get what you pay for in this world, Oyster are not perhaps like that 3point german vehicle trading on its past reputation..and the initial price is quickly forgotten 6 months down the line when you 'grow' into the new smart purchase and start to get an insight into just what you have bought and the effort taken in getting that product to you. And then when you care to move on, those qualities remain eagerly sought after.
I would refer you to Hinckleys but, strangely and like Oyster, there are precious few on the s/h market..BTW imo they are -quite possibly- even nicer boats..
If you really don't need 60 feet for 2 people, I would earnestly urge you to have a serious look at a new, built to order Rustler 42, imho the dogs danglies and with impeccable handling and resale, do-anything capability and great looks to boot! ( I am a wee bit biased toward their products)..
rallyveteran
Well-Known Member
I think I am the first contributor to this thread who has actually purchased a new Oyster, albeit more than a decade ago, so I can offer some additional information.
I don't think many people pay the full sticker price. 10% discounts are common in return for allowing the boat to be used in a show, and I guess bigger discounts are possible from time to time.
From my experience Oyster have a different attitude to warranty from other production boatbuilders. I was still getting their assistance long after the contractual year was up. A friend with a similar Hallberg Rassy said that after his year's warranty he was on his own. If you costed all my warranty work (including pressure put on other suppliers to support their products and international travel for technicians) you could probably get close to another 10% of the base cost of the boat. I think I was unlucky with the extent of my problems, but Oyster were unstinting in their support. Some have suggested that this support will be less than forthcoming now that the company has been sold to a private equity house, but in the last few days I have seen a new Oyster in the Mediterranean having warranty support provided by people who have flown from the UK. They also, famously, supply so many people to help at the start of the ARC, and other rallies that I have taken part in, that owners have been embarrassed compared with rally participants with other makes.
I've never been to an Owners Rally, which are often pictured in Oyster News, but they look terrific fun and worth a lot more than the modest participants fee. It would take a few of these to make much of a dent in the cost of an Oyster but they look to me like an experience that you wouldn't normally be able to buy at any price.
Oyster always used to say that it was only when owners came to re-sell their boats that they realised what good value for money they had had. There have definitely been periods when that has not been true, because there has been a glut of second hand boats of a particular size and vintage, but I know a number of people who have successfully owned several large Oysters in succession, all bought new and sold on a few years later. One assumes that these people have thought the answer to the original question is yes.
I don't think many people pay the full sticker price. 10% discounts are common in return for allowing the boat to be used in a show, and I guess bigger discounts are possible from time to time.
From my experience Oyster have a different attitude to warranty from other production boatbuilders. I was still getting their assistance long after the contractual year was up. A friend with a similar Hallberg Rassy said that after his year's warranty he was on his own. If you costed all my warranty work (including pressure put on other suppliers to support their products and international travel for technicians) you could probably get close to another 10% of the base cost of the boat. I think I was unlucky with the extent of my problems, but Oyster were unstinting in their support. Some have suggested that this support will be less than forthcoming now that the company has been sold to a private equity house, but in the last few days I have seen a new Oyster in the Mediterranean having warranty support provided by people who have flown from the UK. They also, famously, supply so many people to help at the start of the ARC, and other rallies that I have taken part in, that owners have been embarrassed compared with rally participants with other makes.
I've never been to an Owners Rally, which are often pictured in Oyster News, but they look terrific fun and worth a lot more than the modest participants fee. It would take a few of these to make much of a dent in the cost of an Oyster but they look to me like an experience that you wouldn't normally be able to buy at any price.
Oyster always used to say that it was only when owners came to re-sell their boats that they realised what good value for money they had had. There have definitely been periods when that has not been true, because there has been a glut of second hand boats of a particular size and vintage, but I know a number of people who have successfully owned several large Oysters in succession, all bought new and sold on a few years later. One assumes that these people have thought the answer to the original question is yes.
Robin
Well-Known Member
So let's see if I got this right. Oyster make some very expensive boats which continue to need de-snagging well after the warranty expires. So to be seen to be giving good customer service, they charge this huge premium so they can afford to send teams of fault fixers out worldwide to fix what should never have gone wrong in the first place. In addition they like to send out teams prior to events like the ARC to ensure that their boats do not appear in the 'had problems on the crossing' statistics. Nice one.
Whatever happened to the concept of proper design, proper build including proper quality control both during and on completion of build? Fitted components of course will be supplied by others, but the choice of these is made by Oyster and is up to them to select items fit for the job and quality control them. Different if they are specialist bits (not Oyster options) and owner selected, unless the defect is caused by faulty installation.
Whatever happened to the concept of proper design, proper build including proper quality control both during and on completion of build? Fitted components of course will be supplied by others, but the choice of these is made by Oyster and is up to them to select items fit for the job and quality control them. Different if they are specialist bits (not Oyster options) and owner selected, unless the defect is caused by faulty installation.
