Bav34
...
Nothing really ... just the right size for the job.
Only posted the pics 'cos someone questioned whether or not they were two-speed.
Sorry they weren't shiney enough for him ... can't please some people.
Why are Bavarias so unloved??
- Thread starter capnsensible
- Start date
Nothing really ... just the right size for the job.
Only posted the pics 'cos someone questioned whether or not they were two-speed.
Sorry they weren't shiney enough for him ... can't please some people.
padipaddy
Well-Known Member
Nothing really ... just the right size for the job.
Only posted the pics 'cos someone questioned whether or not they were two-speed.
Sorry they weren't shiney enough for him ... can't please some people.
Yeh but dont get disheartened you might be able to piss higher ?
RAB
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Me again, bit selective about your quotations aren't you, there was a wee bit more, why not finish it?
Your spring must be getting awful tight; me, I am having a chuckle.
Your spring must be getting awful tight; me, I am having a chuckle.
Bav34
...
Quandary
Well-Known Member
I HAVE MAN-FLU AND AM NOT LONG FOR THIS WORLD !!!
I'm allowed to be grouchy.
Off to bed then, take a dram or two, sweet dreams.
Madhatter
Well-Known Member
All I can say to OP is remember Vauxhall victors/crestas etc took them decades to rid themselves of the rust stigma ( all for saving money ) - even today people won't have one for that reason .
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Hiya Johnmorrisuk!
I expect you know that many yachts round up when over canvassed, I cerrtainly do and find Bavarias no different to many others. It helps if you sail them properly trimmed and balanced. I can!!
Regarding Lewmar, whats with the snide bit?? Over the years, and increasingly more so, I have been let down by their stuff. Leaky portlights - I posted about this last week- leaking hatch handles, throttle controls that fall to bits and steering gear that has broken well offshore.
Parts hard to source, get delivered and pricey.
Snide?? No, just have to live with stuff that is not really fit for purpose.
Trolling,you are having a larf!
Its a shame, that like one noted electronics company, that Buying British is often not the best anymore.
My own boat is a 1977 Moody 33.........
Keep your bilges dry.
I expect you know that many yachts round up when over canvassed, I cerrtainly do and find Bavarias no different to many others. It helps if you sail them properly trimmed and balanced. I can!!
Regarding Lewmar, whats with the snide bit?? Over the years, and increasingly more so, I have been let down by their stuff. Leaky portlights - I posted about this last week- leaking hatch handles, throttle controls that fall to bits and steering gear that has broken well offshore.
Parts hard to source, get delivered and pricey.
Snide?? No, just have to live with stuff that is not really fit for purpose.
Trolling,you are having a larf!
Its a shame, that like one noted electronics company, that Buying British is often not the best anymore.
My own boat is a 1977 Moody 33.........
Keep your bilges dry.
reddragon44
N/A
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Coz on the eighth day He created 12v lights, dehumidifiers, air freshener and the Meditteranean and Caribbean climates!
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Another part of the problem is Bavaria's often being associated with first time buyers into the sport.
The establishment says " don't you know that you have to start with a morris oxford 21 with hank on sails and a lifting keel that never comes up again"
Damn impudence ! After 13 years of that you can then move onto a British Home Stores 23 that goes at right angles to windward with a used moped engine for axillary power !
Ten years of that moves you to ..........................
uforea
Well-Known Member
SailBobSquarePants
Well-Known Member
Need to tick the boxes...
I have a very experienced (ex-TP52 paid crewmember, etc.) friend who has proudly owned a Bav, and a total noobie friend that went out and bought a Bav 50 for his first ever sailboat. The experienced friend insists that Bavs are great family boats - as long as you remember to upgrade a lot of the bargain basement gear choices when you have the options list in your hand. Especially the winches, which all seem to be about two sizes too small, and the ground tackle. The other friend didn't upgrade anything upon ordering it, and has been suffering for it - as have his sailing friends and crewmembers. As a result, he has decided that he will simply upgrade his main winches to electrics (good thing he has the money to throw at it). And a large Raymarine upgrade bill this past summer. All the result of building a boat for a low sticker price.
Most people that I know that own Bavarias seem to like them, quite a few in our marina, and I considered buying one myself before I decided to buy an older, classic boat. But I would definitely get a good sailor that I trusted to review the gear choices and specs, and tell me which boxes to tick on the upgrades if I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself (which a lot of Bav buyers cannot do, as it's a first boat for many people).
I have a very experienced (ex-TP52 paid crewmember, etc.) friend who has proudly owned a Bav, and a total noobie friend that went out and bought a Bav 50 for his first ever sailboat. The experienced friend insists that Bavs are great family boats - as long as you remember to upgrade a lot of the bargain basement gear choices when you have the options list in your hand. Especially the winches, which all seem to be about two sizes too small, and the ground tackle. The other friend didn't upgrade anything upon ordering it, and has been suffering for it - as have his sailing friends and crewmembers. As a result, he has decided that he will simply upgrade his main winches to electrics (good thing he has the money to throw at it). And a large Raymarine upgrade bill this past summer. All the result of building a boat for a low sticker price.
Most people that I know that own Bavarias seem to like them, quite a few in our marina, and I considered buying one myself before I decided to buy an older, classic boat. But I would definitely get a good sailor that I trusted to review the gear choices and specs, and tell me which boxes to tick on the upgrades if I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself (which a lot of Bav buyers cannot do, as it's a first boat for many people).
sailorman
Well-Known Member
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I am interested to read of your experiences with LEWMAR gear. I have bought a fair amount over the years and have never had a problem with it, so we will have to agree to differ. As far as I am concerned Lewmar is a respected make throughout the world and you are first person I come across to have a consistent moan about their quality. I might moan about their prices and their delivery times, but the quality has always been excellent in my experience. No connection except as a customer.
Regarding the Bav's ability to broach. Yes I have sailed a fair few boats from long keel to modern wide bottomed, from steel wood or GRP etc etc and my experience is that the Bav's are among the worst at griping up to windward when hard pressed. Perhaps my feelings are exacerbated by the layout of the cockpit which always seems to have been designed with the comfort of al fresco dining in thought than an ability to sail the things. The mainsheet design is especially hard work in various situations, and certainly doesn't help you dump the main in a hurry when you are hard pressed.
Above all, its the ability of the boats to SUDDENLY gripe up when sailing to windward that annoys me the most. Any decently mannered boat gives you lots of warnings that she is over-pressed. In our current boat you can have water up the deck before she starts to gripe up (which is VERY hard to achieve!) Its fin keeled, but not extreme in the ends.
Bav's do a job, but their sailing manners (like lots of other fat back-sided boats) leave a lot to be desired. However, they get lots of people on the water and if they bring pleasure to families, then who am I to criticise that?
I am glad that you can sail properly. I am still learning.
fireball
Well-Known Member
perhaps it's because it feels differnt when it's about to stall the rudder ? Coming from high performance dinghies I have not had a problem in feeling when the rudder is stalling. Even on a test sail with bav34 which was my first introduction to a wheel in a breeze I could feel it - even if I couldn't quite stop my seesawing!!
Ithink the main difference is that these awbs are have a much smaller range before they are overpressed and the skippers need to sail them differently in order to get the best. Oh and in a gust I don't dump main. I change course. Usually works unless you really do have too much main up.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
If they were being sold as performance racers then I would buy your argument. However the Bav is sold as a cruiser. Altering course for the gust is a very much a dinghy ploy - unfortunately as the boat gets bigger it doesn't work quite as well. Try doing it on a 50' or 60' boat - the boat doesn't react fast enough! I am not convinced that you should have to do it on a 34 foot boat. It makes sailing in a breeze very uncomfortable for everyone on board. Each to their own though and if that is what you enjoy - carry on.
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Robin
Well-Known Member
I've not sailed a Bav but have sailed many boats of all types and sizes, AWBs and MABs. I was a dinghy sailor too but that goes back over 40 years! My two pence worth then:-
Going to windward a gust will free the wind and if you hold your compass course rather than wind angle you will inevitably be oversheeted. If you are genuinely going to windward, as opposed to being able to lay the course on one tack, then that is inefficient and the better way is of course to follow the wind and point up, gaining distance to windward. However if the boat is really over canvassed that is not good either. Generally speaking cruising boats (should) reef for the windspeed in the gusts but race boats may chose to for the windspeed in the lulls and handle the gusts by crew on the rail and dumping the main as needed.
When to reef becomes the question, and lots of factors come into play!
Older style boats often sail best with the lee deck awash, not so with the later designs and certainly not with the modern ones. Then there is the pi$$ing contest factor that says 'my boat can handle 25kts upwind without a reef'.
We had a Westerly 33 Ketch for 14 years and around 20,000mls. We took the mizzen off at about 15kts apparent going upwind but we could hold full sail up to over 22kts - but go slower and more uncomfortably.
Our last boat was a 41 foot Sun Legende with a bigger sail area to weight ratio, taller rig and designed as a cruiser/racer the original being a French one tonner with Admiral's Cup Team membership. On this boat we reefed at 16kts apparent going upwind but a glance at the TRUE windspeed (we had a multi repeater left on that display) would show that was F3! Now macho man doesn't win pi$$ing contests by reefing in F3 does he? We found we COULD hold 25kts apparent going upwind, using all the sail controls, the traveller right down and feathering in the worst gusts, but for all but a few miles to a destination that was VERY slow and VERY uncomfortable, even though our lee deck was still not awash.
Off the wind is also different. We once sailed the W33 over 100mls downwind with 45kts at times over the deck (don't ask!) and a full main, no jib. I wanted no main and a bit of jib but the huge seas if we tried to take it off would have rolled us. This was very hard work hand steering as the pilot couldn't cope at all but we got there OK and even stayed dry in the cockpit.
With the Sun Legende we did one X-Channel trip with a F8 broad reach and carried full main and genoa until about half way when she was screwing around a bit on the autopilot on the bigger waves as the tide had then turned against the wind. We decided to reef and pulled in all three slab reefs and about half the genoa, boatspeed now up to 10.5kts whereas with full sail it was..... up to 10.5kts although occasionally surfing above that. The difference was that now the autopilot could cope again and all was more relaxed.
Different strokes for different boats!
MARGETTS
Well-Known Member
Hi John,
I bow to your greater experience, however I could note the following points after owning a bav 34 for the last 9 years and using it a great including sail training for a time.
The original Elvestrom sails are just too full and designed for light wind sailing. With them I found the optimum reefing speeds of 18, 23 and 28 knots to keep good control of the boat. You also needed a lot of backstay going upwind and obviously when you reefed the headsail it was a bag of the proverbial
I have replaced the sails with Crusader sails about 3 years ago and it is a different boat.
If the wind isnt too gusty we can now leave the first reef until about 22-23 knots ( although I still tend to reef a bit earlier so as not to overpower ). Indeed I had a total novice broad reaching with full sail at 23 knots apparent and going straight as a die, while other boats around us were steering some very dodgy courses. A larger Moody which was overtaking was really struggling to stay clear and called for water. My novice just turned right a bit and let him pass.
With one reef in, averaging 20 with gusts to 30 are still a bit of a problem but more manageable. With 2 reefs and the same winds we average a little slower in the lulls but no drama upto 30 knots gusts.
Not as comfortable in a seeway as the rassys and such like, but I have no intention of changing mine.
Regards
I bow to your greater experience, however I could note the following points after owning a bav 34 for the last 9 years and using it a great including sail training for a time.
The original Elvestrom sails are just too full and designed for light wind sailing. With them I found the optimum reefing speeds of 18, 23 and 28 knots to keep good control of the boat. You also needed a lot of backstay going upwind and obviously when you reefed the headsail it was a bag of the proverbial
I have replaced the sails with Crusader sails about 3 years ago and it is a different boat.
If the wind isnt too gusty we can now leave the first reef until about 22-23 knots ( although I still tend to reef a bit earlier so as not to overpower ). Indeed I had a total novice broad reaching with full sail at 23 knots apparent and going straight as a die, while other boats around us were steering some very dodgy courses. A larger Moody which was overtaking was really struggling to stay clear and called for water. My novice just turned right a bit and let him pass.
With one reef in, averaging 20 with gusts to 30 are still a bit of a problem but more manageable. With 2 reefs and the same winds we average a little slower in the lulls but no drama upto 30 knots gusts.
Not as comfortable in a seeway as the rassys and such like, but I have no intention of changing mine.
Regards
doug748
Well-Known Member
Robin
Well-Known Member
Typical Moody! Of course they don't often get a chance to overtake anything so perhaps can be allowed occasional concessions from the Colregs!
