Who thinks this is the correct level of fine

[blueglass]

FWIW, you are flogging a dead horse, guys.

To make way to windward, sailing boats MUST tack. It is simple rules of physics & no man-made law in the world can change that. You need to get that FACT into your heads & accept that sailing boats NEED to tack. We sure as hell wouldn't waste our time & energy zig-zagging for the fun of it.

zig zagging across a crowded anchorage/harbour/approach channel is NOT essential in any way and yes you frequently do it for the fun of it. You have an engine for use in such places so use it and save your zig zagging for open water. You need to get that fact into YOUR heads.

 

[l'escargot]

zig zagging across a crowded anchorage/harbour/approach channel is NOT essential in any way and yes you frequently do it for the fun of it. You have an engine for use in such places so use it and save your zig zagging for open water. You need to get that fact into YOUR heads.

No, the engine is an auxilary and it isn't for use in all those circumstances - the clue is in the name "sailing" boat. Also, believe it or not some sailing boats don't even have engines.

If zig zagging isn't allowed do you also propose that all motorboats only go in straight lines too?

 

[DAKA]

It isn't done to annoy you, we simply have no choice, so get used to it, learn to predict it & pass behind us after we tack. It really isn't that hard to do. I cannot understand that you are apparently so stupid as to not be able to accept this simple fact of nature!

its not often that I dont agree with you searush but in this particular case you seem a little blinkered .

You have an engine, you have a choice.

If your engine is bust radio for a tow or drop anchor until you can fix it.

No excuse for sailing in crowded narrow channels.

Many local bylaws do prohibit sailing in such areas or make it clear they should not stand on in mooring fairways, only a matter of time before they all ban it, in France you dont tend to see such a callas free for all, the kids are towed out the harbour channels into safe water.

 

[blueglass]

No, the engine is an auxilary and it isn't for use in all those circumstances - the clue is in the name "sailing" boat. Also, believe it or not some sailing boats don't even have engines.

If zig zagging isn't allowed do you also propose that all motorboats only go in straight lines too?

Yes I know some sailing boats don't have engines - they should get one fitted IMHO for use in just those circumstances. If you don't think that zig zagging around harbours is dangerous or inconvenient - speak to the skipper of the Lymington Yarmouth ferry.
as regards mobos in straight lines - in harbour - yes of course

 

[fergie_mac66]

One law for the pilot obviously.

I think it's a ludicrous amount to fine someone.

+1 it should have been a lot more !

 

[l'escargot]

...as regards mobos in straight lines - in harbour - yes of course

Talking of Lymington, have you seen the bends in the river? There's going to be a lot of motorboats on the mud if they follow your advice.

I speak to skippers on all sorts of ferries and boats around the Solent and they seldom have trouble anticipating tacking boats, but then they are professional seamen and you would be surprised how many of them sail too - you could probably do well to take some tips from them.

 

[blueglass]

Talking of Lymington, have you seen the bends in the river? There's going to be a lot of motorboats on the mud if they follow your advice.

its usually small children who take things so literally.

 

[blueglass]

I speak to skippers on all sorts of ferries and boats around the Solent and they seldom have trouble anticipating tacking boats, but then they are professional seamen and you would be surprised how many of them sail too - you could probably do well to take some tips from them.

What - tips on how to avoid yachts pratting around under sail in crowded harbours? Why should they have to anticipate and avoid them. They have a job to do.
The vast majority of yachties are responsible people who enter and leave harbour under power for their own safety if nothing else. Clearly you aren't one of them.

 

[l'escargot]

its usually small children who take things so literally.

And motorboaters...

 

[l'escargot]

What - tips on how to avoid yachts pratting around under sail in crowded harbours? Why should they have to anticipate and avoid them. They have a job to do.
The vast majority of yachties are responsible people who enter and leave harbour under power for their own safety if nothing else. Clearly you aren't one of them.

Why shouldn't they - just because they are working? People being paid to do something have no rights over those doing it for pleasure. What about all those motorboats pratting about they have to avoid too, should they be banned? You'll see as many motorboats blasted by the Lymington ferry as you do sailing boats (and more prosecuted for ignoring harbour byelaws too)

I motor into harbour if required but if it isn't I will sail in perfectly safely and in fact sometimes my "sailing" boat is safer under sail than it is under engine - it was after all designed to sail. But it is probably a skill you have no understanding of - you should try it, it will improve your boat handling no end.

 

[madabouttheboat]

I speak to skippers on all sorts of ferries and boats around the Solent and they seldom have trouble anticipating tacking boats, but then they are professional seamen and you would be surprised how many of them sail too - you could probably do well to take some tips from them.

I think this guy had a spot of trouble anticipating

 

[Robin]

its not often that I dont agree with you searush but in this particular case you seem a little blinkered .

You have an engine, you have a choice.

If your engine is bust radio for a tow or drop anchor until you can fix it.

No excuse for sailing in crowded narrow channels.

Many local bylaws do prohibit sailing in such areas or make it clear they should not stand on in mooring fairways, only a matter of time before they all ban it, in France you dont tend to see such a callas free for all, the kids are towed out the harbour channels into safe water.

Are you sure you really landed in France? Clearly not the places we used to frequent at least!

Sailing in and out of marina berths is common in France (seen in Cherbourg, Treguier, La Trinite, Concarneau, Camaret, Morgat....) and as for dinghies we met a whole fleet of catamarans tacking towards us in the narrow channel between the reefs as we entered L'Aberwrac'h. The visibility was about 25 metres at the time and we were creeping in at 2kts on plotter and radar, they were going out, flat out.

I too dislike unnecessary sailing in very confined areas, but some of the boats in the area where plonker of the year was sinning are engineless, like the X-boats on the east side of the channel, the dinghies from Royal Lymington YC and Lymington Town SC and the racing keelboats moored rafted up in Berthons. I would prefer that big boats didn't sail in and block the channel whilst they go head to wind to drop sails, but there are inconsiderate folk everywhere. That still doesn't excuse plonker of the year who was not fined enough IMO, and I'm a new mobo owner.

 

[blueglass]

I motor into harbour if required but if it isn't I will sail in perfectly safely and in fact sometimes my "sailing" boat is safer under sail than it is under engine - it was after all designed to sail. But it is probably a skill you have no understanding of - you should try it, it will improve your boat handling no end.

You don't know anything about my boat handling skills so please stop offering me advice.
We are talking about the general principle of sailing and specifically tacking in crowded harbours, a practice you are intent on defending. In my opinion it exhibits poor seamanship, not skill. You say you motor into harbour "if required" - how do you define the requirement?

 

[neale]

But it is probably a skill you have no understanding of - you should try it, it will improve your boat handling no end.

Don't underestimate how many Moboers have sailed. It's probably a higher percentage than you think.

I, for example, am a Mobo man through and through, as anyone who knows me will testify. I do however hold RYA certificates in sail cruising and dinghy sailing

 

[DAKA]

Don't underestimate how many Moboers have sailed. It's probably a higher percentage than you think.

I, for example, am a Mobo man through and through, as anyone who knows me will testify. I do however hold RYA certificates in sail cruising and dinghy sailing

+1

Cabinet full of sailing trophies too

 

[blueglass]

Don't underestimate how many Moboers have sailed. It's probably a higher percentage than you think.

I, for example, am a Mobo man through and through, as anyone who knows me will testify. I do however hold RYA certificates in sail cruising and dinghy sailing

+1 also RYA trained yachtie (reformed)

 

[Robin]

+1

Cabinet full of sailing trophies too

Aha, an ex racer. That explains the selective use of Colregs!

 

[l'escargot]

I think this guy had a spot of trouble anticipating

That boat wasn't tacking

Nor was this one though:



Not a sail in sight

 

[Searush]

That boat wasn't tacking

Don't fret, they wouldn't know the difference anyway. I despair that these people claim that boats are more manouverable under engine, yet they can't even avoid a slow moving sailing boat. It just doesn't make sense - unless they are motoring too fast for the conditions & traffic that is.

If I can comfortably motor or tack around other slow moving boats (including fishermen drifting in the channel in dinghies) How come you can't? Am I really that much better at it than you, or are you just complaining too much?

 

[l'escargot]

You don't know anything about my boat handling skills so please stop offering me advice.
We are talking about the general principle of sailing and specifically tacking in crowded harbours, a practice you are intent on defending. In my opinion it exhibits poor seamanship, not skill. You say you motor into harbour "if required" - how do you define the requirement?

I can only judge your boat handling skill from your posts on here and they don't demonstrate an understanding of sailing or sailing boats but that isn't uncommon for a motorboater. Most sailors also have engines so generally they have a better understanding of motoring than many motorboaters have of sailing.

I don't agree that sailing a boat in everyday circumstances, most harbours are crowded these days, is poor seamanship and I would say judging it as so probably says more about your understanding of what good seamanship is than a sailors abilities. Just because there are more boats about doesn't mean that no one should sail anymore. Should we say a significant proportion of the motoring public shouldn't drive their cars for pleasure just because the roads are busier?

Requirement can be as simple as byelaws or conditions - QHM tells me to have my motor on when I enter Portsmouth Harbour so I do or if there is no wind and I can't sail somewhere, I motor. Pretty easy principles I would say.