Who thinks this is the correct level of fine

[EddieBlue]

Tacking is entirely predictable - unless something goes wrong & they get caught in stays. If you sail you should know that. The boat turns approximately thro 90deg & sets off on the opposite tack until it has to turn again. Wind changes or waves may lead to course changes on a given tack, but the turn itself is pretty predictable.

What's this about a massive increase in motorboats? I haven't noticed that. Got any evidence to support it? I actually suspect that the massive increases in fuel costs as people burn it all away will lead to more people sailing & that IS a trend I have seen for myself.

And who said anything about marinas, never mind trying to sail into such tiny spaces? It isn't impossible, but it's certainly impractical if only because it is so difficult to reduce speed effectively under sail - the only reverse thrust you could get is to try to push the sail against the wind! But you're a sailor, so you must know that.

I'm very impressed that you can forsee the changing of international rgulations to suit your personal needs. You must be much more important than the rest of us who obey the rules.

By all means argue a point from facts, but not blind predjudice please.


As to me coming on here, if MoBo'ers are so precious as to not be able to sensibly justify their stance against fair criticism, then perhaps they shouldn't accuse sailors of deliberately baulking them! We are happy to defend our corner.

I have no evidence to support my theory that boats with engines are more and more popular, so I guess that we will have to take a educated guess.

I guess that 100 years ago there were very few boats around with engines. I would further guess that in another 100 years time there will be a lot more.

Are there mainstream boat builders that still offer boats that have no facility or option for mechanical power? Obviously I do not mean tenders and the like.

I know that you didn't mention marinas, I didn't say that you did, but you DO get idiots trying to sail into marinas onto their berths at very busy times irrespective of and without consideration to the majority of other users.

The problem is that we all co exist and a live and let live attitude should prevail. Motorboat users towing people along at twenty odd knots is stupid and dangerous, just the same as insisting that sailing when and where you want is your God given right, yelling the Dickensian argument "Power give way to sail"

Extremes of either side are dangerous and should be toned down in my opinion.

Eddie

 

[l'escargot]

...I stopped reading...

That will always put you at a disadvantage.

 

[EddieBlue]

That will always put you at a disadvantage.

Not from people that cut, paste and edit other peoples words and opinions!

Eddie

 

[l'escargot]

Not from people that cut, paste and edit other peoples words and opinions!

Eddie

You better go back and look at post #117 then Eddie

 

[EddieBlue]

You better go back and look at post #117 then Eddie

OK I'll rephrase to make it easier to understand:-

Not from people that cut, paste and edit other peoples words and opinions, mid sentence!

Good to argue with people that have an opinion though to be fair

Eddie

 

[Robin]

Ah so your clairvoyant. You like putting people into "types" do you! I don't so I wouldn't guess what "type" you are.

I sail with friends and I own a motorboat. I hate stupidity and anything done that causes inconvenience to the majority. For example, coming into Poole estuary there is a very big sign stating to yachtsmen "USE MOTOR"

Yet all so many sailors ignore this sign. What would you do? or do you think that the idiot that got fined for breaking the law with the board should obey and your above it? or would you use your motor in and out in keeping with the by law and then exercise your right to sail away from the entrance?

Eddie

Tiny pedantic points, but a) Poole Harbour is not an estuary although the River Frome does trickle into it and b) The signs actually say USE of MOTOR recommended.

We mostly motored out of Poole, at least to past the chain ferry because that warmed up the engine, heated the hot water tank and gave time to put fenders away and pull the mainsail up. We almost always sailed in on our return, having dropped the mainsail outside off Bar Buoy in clear water away from others, going in with just the roller genoa. We had an engine that was instant start if ever needed and the headsail could be rolled away in seconds. We didn't tack in through the entrance, for no reason other than we were just two sailing a biggish boat and we preferred less hassle. Mind you we had to dodge the drifting angler boats and beware (very aware) of the Cobb's Quay cavalry charge if entering of a sunny morn after bridge opening time at a weekend, now THAT was frightening.

The plonker that was fined in Lymington was doing over three times the limit and towing a wakeboarder, that is akin to being brain dead in my book even before he ignored the more forgiving warning approach from the HM. Someone sailing into a narrow crowded channel like into Lymington is inconsiderate, very much so if tacking in, but not plain dangerous and that is an important difference. Also as I pointed out earlier there are quite a few boats in Lymington that have no engines anyway and a few of these are kept right up river at Berthon. Did we sail into and out of Lymington? I have in the past but not if we had to tack and anyway with our later bigger boats preferred to do the sail hoisting and stowage out of the way outside the harbour.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Tacking is entirely predictable - unless something goes wrong & they get caught in stays. If you sail you should know that. The boat turns approximately thro 90deg & sets off on the opposite tack until it has to turn again. Wind changes or waves may lead to course changes on a given tack, but the turn itself is pretty predictable.

What absolute tosh. Not only do boats frequently tack through anything between 80 and 120 degrees they do it whenever the helmsman or skipper feels like it. Watching a fleet of boats close tacking up a channel in proximity to each other is a well known spectator sport with cries of water starboard usually being exchanged for more robust terms as they get in each other's way yet again. Until the wind drops or the tide turns of course - then listen to the donks start up. It's amazing how an auxiliary on a sail boat can be used to avoid inconvenience to the sail boat itself but not to anyone else it gets in the way of.

Motor boats are frequently just as unpredictable. Anything that is controlled by an unknown human being has to be assumed to be unpredictable. I've sailed sailed boats, flown aircraft and driven cars and lorries and I certainly wouldn't rate my chances getting to your age if I started assuming people were predictable - I don't believe you assume that for one minute either.

While we're at it I haven't memorised a database of every single yacht ever built and their draft so I don't know when she will reach the edge of the channel (even assuming her skipper and I both believe the channel is the same depth in the first place, which is unlikely unless we're both regular locals) - another reason this claimed predictability is, to be kind, unrealistic.

 

[DAKA]

What's this about a massive increase in motorboats? I haven't noticed that. Got any evidence to support it? I actually suspect that the massive increases in fuel costs as people burn it all away will lead to more people sailing & that IS a trend I have seen for myself.

You only need read this thread to spot the demise of the sailing boat searush. in the main sailors are old timers, the owners are getting older crews are getting older.
Around cowes you do see a few younger mixed crews but they are far more interested in getting p! 55ed / laid than sailing and usually motor sail everywhere and jump in a fast rib on arrival.

Now I accept an argument that when the younger mobo owners retire they could find themselves with an urge to sail but I dont see it because the mobo lads manage to keep their wives/kids interested, Ive been entertained by 70 year old couples on a fast flybridge and cant see how they could suddenly expect a 70 year old lady to start crewing a 12 m sailing boat.

Thats why many predict a change in the expectations of sailing behaviour, when a sailing boat zigzags out of a narrow channel do you think everyone else including the HM stands back in admiration at the skills or do you think they mutter "look at that daft old sod dangerously blocking the harbour "

Many younger would be sailors are taking to wind surfing / Kite surfing, no need for a club/crew, they will never be introduced to cruiser section and will be able to keep their windsurf/kite gear on a sports boat.

I have noticed a massive change in sailing clubs this last 5-10 years, as stinkers we used to be tolerated and were careful not to speak about motor cruising , now not only are we welcomed but we find the bars are extensively populated with other stinkers !

 

[Chrusty 1]

You only need read this thread to spot the demise of the sailing boat searush. in the main sailors are old timers, the owners are getting older crews are getting older.
Around cowes you do see a few younger mixed crews but they are far more interested in getting p! 55ed / laid than sailing and usually motor sail everywhere and jump in a fast rib on arrival.

Now I accept an argument that when the younger mobo owners retire they could find themselves with an urge to sail but I dont see it because the mobo lads manage to keep their wives/kids interested, Ive been entertained by 70 year old couples on a fast flybridge and cant see how they could suddenly expect a 70 year old lady to start crewing a 12 m sailing boat.

Thats why many predict a change in the expectations of sailing behaviour, when a sailing boat zigzags out of a narrow channel do you think everyone else including the HM stands back in admiration at the skills or do you think they mutter "look at that daft old sod dangerously blocking the harbour "

Many younger would be sailors are taking to wind surfing / Kite surfing, no need for a club/crew, they will never be introduced to cruiser section and will be able to keep their windsurf/kite gear on a sports boat.

I have noticed a massive change in sailing clubs this last 5-10 years, as stinkers we used to be tolerated and were careful not to speak about motor cruising , now not only are we welcomed but we find the bars are extensively populated with other stinkers !

Thanks for giving me the best laugh I have had for a long time on visiting this forum

 

[blueglass]

You only need read this thread to spot the demise of the sailing boat searush. in the main sailors are old timers, the owners are getting older crews are getting older.

a sailing boat is indeed a total anachronism. Amusingly archaic technology from a bygone era.
Don't get me wrong I'm actually a lover of history and tradition, but there's a place for every thing and everything in its place. You don't see too many horse drawn carriages mixing it with the BMW's in the fast lane of the M6, and sailors should confine their unpredictable ( by definition), means of propulsion to open water where they can play to their hearts content.

 

[ricky_s]

a sailing boat is indeed a total anachronism. Amusingly archaic technology from a bygone era.
Don't get me wrong I'm actually a lover of history and tradition, but there's a place for every thing and everything in its place. You don't see too many horse drawn carriages mixing it with the BMW's in the fast lane of the M6, and sailors should confine their unpredictable ( by definition), means of propulsion to open water where they can play to their hearts content.

Perhaps a man in a tender in front of each sailboat with a red flag?

 

[DAKA]

sailors should confine their unpredictable ( by definition), means of propulsion to open water where they can play to their hearts content.

I think thats the problem bluegrass, they are actually playing in the channel, its called
" lets 'uck it up for the stinkers"
the cantankerous old 'arts just love to zigzag into you in an attempt to run you aground or cause a collision between two mobos.

I think they start on the M3 too, 65mph centre lane with a 3 mile tailback, as soon as you try to nip through the inside lane they use a zigzag blocking manoeuvre, only a raggie would do such a stupid thing !

 

[DAKA]

Perhaps a man in a tender in front of each sailboat with a red flag?

 

[Searush]

a sailing boat is indeed a total anachronism. Amusingly archaic technology from a bygone era.
Don't get me wrong I'm actually a lover of history and tradition, but there's a place for every thing and everything in its place. You don't see too many horse drawn carriages mixing it with the BMW's in the fast lane of the M6, and sailors should confine their unpredictable ( by definition), means of propulsion to open water where they can play to their hearts content.

You have my prize for the silliest contribution to a thread this year. It may have escaped your notice that animals are illegal on M-ways, which is only sensible as horse drawn vehicles are more suited to shorter & slower journeys. Plenty of then about where I live tho & more & more horse riders.

The trouble with you lot seems to be a complete myopia. You seem to think that only MoBos are "sensible or practical". But there are simply millions of young people sailing dinghies around the UK - they are the new generation of cruising sailors. MoBos are popular for people who lack confidence & want something "like a car" to drive on the water.

But the cost of fuel is already driving down the price of older MoBo's. yachts are nowhere near as price sensitive to age, so there will be many many reliable but older yachts available for people with some sailing sills to move up to.

Sailing cruisers dying out? I don't think so, no evidence where I sail anyway. I suppose that on the Solent the local availability of new money & the percieved simplicity fo MoBo's has probably lead to an increase there, but that is NOT apparent in the real world.

 

[DAKA]

You have my prize for the silliest contribution to a thread this year..

Yes bluegrass, really , what were you thinking of !

If you cant come up with more some sensible suggestions how we can all get on better please leave it to us

Ricky, how do you go about making the man with a red flag in a tender compulsory ?

 

[ricky_s]

Yes bluegrass, really , what were you thinking of !

If you cant come up with more some sensible suggestions how we can all get on better please leave it to us

Ricky, how do you go about making the man with a red flag in a tender compulsory ?

It wouldn't work, they would get said tender to tow them and just pretend to sail. Now if we could just persuade them to remove their sails and use their engine they would be on a proper boat anyway.

 

[blueglass]

You have my prize for the silliest contribution to a thread this year. It may have escaped your notice that animals are illegal on M-ways, which is only sensible as horse drawn vehicles are more suited to shorter & slower journeys. Plenty of then about where I live tho & more & more horse riders.

hook, line and sinker - I have my prize already!
seriously though - you miss the point entirely. Lots of horses here in deepest Shropshire too, several of my friends have them. Interestingly though, they confine their activities to bridle paths, paddocks and quiet country lanes. This means THEY are safe, others are not inconvenienced, and collision possibilities kept to a minimum. Furthermore, when it is essential to cross busy main roads, they dismount and lead the horses across at an appropriately safe moment. A bit like a responsible sailor who puts his engine on to negotiate harbour.
Actually quite surprised you take this stance SR. You normally champion consideration for others in quiet anchorages, think of others when making wash etc etc. A bit of two way traffic is all that's asked for.

 

[DAKA]

hook, line and sinker - I have my prize already!
seriously though - you miss the point entirely. Lots of horses here in deepest Shropshire too, several of my friends have them. Intestingly though, they confine their activities to brdle paths, paddocks and quiet country lanes. This means THEY are safe, others are not inconvenienced, and collision possibilities ket to a minimum. Furthermore, when it is essential to cross busy main roads, they dismount and lead the horses across at an appropriately safe moment. A bit like a responsible sailor who puts his engine on to negotiate harbour.

I for one would be happy to throw a line to a sailing boat and tow them in/out to safe water..........................hang about , perhaps the OP was doing just that, towing a kite surfer behind his RIB and got fined £1700 for his well intentioned act , he was just a misunderstood good Samaritan

 

[Flying Penguin]

Perhaps a man in a tender in front of each sailboat with a red flag?

Could always follow the Athens road-sharing system and allow different methods of propulsion in harbour on alternate days, one day motor only, one day sail only.

If necessary, motorboatists could fit a small removable mast to enter or leave harbour on sail only days...

I imagine they'd look something like this...

Oh wait.....

 

[ricky_s]

Could always follow the Athens road-sharing system and allow different methods of propulsion in harbour on alternate days, one day motor only, one day sail only.

If necessary, motorboatists could fit a small removable mast to enter or leave harbour on sail only days...

I imagine they'd look something like this...

Oh wait.....

Good idea!