Who thinks this is the correct level of fine

[elton]

I recently overheard a heated conversation between Tees Pilot ops and a mobo who's wash had caused a skip to fall from a barge hoist onto a pontoon, injuring a worker. Fortunately the injury wasn't serious, but it was pure luck. He thought his speed wasn't excessive, but it was certainly far too fast for the environment. He hadn't realised the potential consequence of his excessive speed. How many do?

 

[[2068]]

I recently overheard a heated conversation between Tees Pilot ops and a mobo who's wash had caused a skip to fall from a barge hoist onto a pontoon, injuring a worker. Fortunately the injury wasn't serious, but it was pure luck. He thought his speed wasn't excessive, but it was certainly far too fast for the environment. He hadn't realised the potential consequence of his excessive speed. How many do?

Excessive speed, or excessive wash?
I can thunder through an anchorage flat out at 10kts in my tiny tender, and only the algae gets churned up. 10kts in the big boat is a different proposition.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

They don't use a speed gun in Lymington so aren't out to persecute anyone. The HM concerned was telling me about it a few days after and he was actually quite annoyed that he had had to resort to prosecution but the individual concerned ignored numerous warnings and chose to speed off having been told of the consequences. He (the HM who reported for prosecution) is generally well thought of by visiting Yachties and Mobos and can be in no way described as pompous - he would much rather educate than prosecute. Nor is he a public servant as Lymington Harbour is an Independant Trust Port. The only person who did anything to support the call for compulsory licencing was the idiot speeding.

Oh bugger, you've spoilt my rant. I was feeling a lot better for that. I still think its a ridiculously high fine though compared to other types of offence. Point of order though. If they don't use a speed gun, how can they present any evidence before a court? Surely it then becomes one man's word against another?

 

[benjenbav]

Oh bugger, you've spoilt my rant. I was feeling a lot better for that. I still think its a ridiculously high fine though compared to other types of offence. Point of order though. If they don't use a speed gun, how can they present any evidence before a court? Surely it then becomes one man's word against another?

I don't know anything about wake boarding but could a wake boarder be towed at 6 knots, which is the limit there, and what was being done?

I know, I know: the answer to that question is: "yes: face first in the water"

 

[elton]

Excessive speed, or excessive wash?
I can thunder through an anchorage flat out at 10kts in my tiny tender, and only the algae gets churned up. 10kts in the big boat is a different proposition.

It's difficult to quantify wash, but if speed is suitably limited, then so is wash. There are millions of square kilometers of open water on Earth where speed and wash will trouble no one, so what's the problem with the odd speed limit?

 

[[2068]]

Speed limits exist to be broken, but only when in the tender

 

[prv]

It's difficult to quantify wash, but if speed is suitably limited, then so is wash.

Some boats make more wash going slowly than they do going fast. Some just make more, or less, than others regardless of speed.

Personally I have no problem with the fine in this case. It's not as if he was just edging a little way over the limit - he was doing over three times the maximum speed and towing a ****ing waterskier ferchrissakes. If that's not taking the piss I don't know what is.

Pete

 

[elton]

Some boats make more wash going slowly than they do going fast. Some just make more, or less, than others regardless of speed.

True, but any boat moving sufficiently slowly will produce negligible wash. So rather than demanding a complex set of rules to cater for the limitless variety of hull and propulsion configurations, they set a simple speed limit.

 

[[2068]]

Sounds like his attitude got him the fine.

 

[gjgm]

Responses have moved on a bit, but it wasnt HM who set the fine, remember- though I admit HM comments on the fine should have been edited

 

[[2068]]

True, but any boat moving sufficiently slowly will produce negligible wash. So rather than demanding a complex set of rules to cater for the limitless variety of hull and propulsion configurations, they set a simple speed limit.

This thing about mobo wash being smaller at higher speeds is a red herring, at least in the land of smaller to mid-sized mobos that i live in.

Wash pretty much follows the fuel consumption curve up to a point. So, minimum wash is at tickover with one engine turned off. Big hump at transition speed (12-15 kts on an S28), then less wash once fully planing. But, only less wash than transition speed. Not less wash than trundle speed.

With smaller boats, the curves might be different. But probably not much, unless you are in the tender.

It does mean that "slowing down" for another boat if on the plane is very pointless, unless done way way in advance, and all the way down to trundle speed, else better to keep going and alter course to add a bit of separation at the original speed.

 

[ripvan1]

Anyone zipping thru' L/Harbour at those speeds is a selfish prat with lack of consideration for other users and their wellbeing/safety - the fine is not enough, personally I'd ban him from the water until he's grown up, otherwise he'll progress and become one of those big mobo drivers who hare around causing havoc.

NB: This isn't a pop at responsible moboers, but we all know the other kind exist.

 

[TSB240]

With smaller boats, the curves might be different. But probably not much, unless you are in the tender.
/QUOTE]

I suffered from loads of inconsiderate boaters of the smaller variety when rafted up on pile moorings for the last few years.

The big problem is when you get small fisher dorys, ribs, tenders and water fleas trying to keep pace with the no wash big mobos and yachts at 6-8 knots.

The smaller boats are right on the hump at that speed! Have you seen the wake a Jet ski makes when fully loaded with 2 large adults at 6 knots! If they go any slower they fall off anyhow!

The fined boater towing a wake boarder was an idiot. We also had one incident of them doing similar speeds through our moorings. It was never dealt with by HM even though identified on CCTV. I am glad that these idiots have been sorted.

Wakeboarders do seem to have a rebellious streak.

I should know as daughter was University National champion.

 

[Elessar]

Oh bugger, you've spoilt my rant. I was feeling a lot better for that. I still think its a ridiculously high fine though compared to other types of offence. Point of order though. If they don't use a speed gun, how can they present any evidence before a court? Surely it then becomes one man's word against another?

If you're wake boarding in the river having been warned, you don't need speed gun evidence.
Idiots like that make other idiots want rules.
I'm with the snail, searush and others on this one.

 

[JKay]

If you're wake boarding in the river having been warned, you don't need speed gun evidence.
Idiots like that make other idiots want rules.
I'm with the snail, searush and others on this one.

+1 Fine is fine with me

 

[Kipper]

Ok back now connection probs sorted.

It appears that most of us agree that the level of fine seems to reflect how seriosly we take being disturbed on a mooring.

Will it detere, boarders,skiers and Jet skiers from doing the same round boats at anchor though.
Isnt there a better way to educate these people. after all fines and penalty points seem to have little effect on inproving driving standards.

 

[Robin]

There are two issues that are similar but then different. One is the speed in a very confined channel with very probably lots of other people about and not to forget large ferries moving in and out and which do a swapover pass often in the very spot of the offence here. The other is the question of wash causing annoyance to others whether they are on the move or on moorings. This particular bonehead was probably in both camps because wakeboarding in that area, in a 6kt speed limit clearly signed, has to be plain crazy and dangerous both to others and to the wakeboarder. The wash may also have been an issue as this is an area where boats will have crew on deck dealing with lines and fenders or on sailboats maybe stowing sails, being rocked and rolled is not helpful.

As others have said, Lymington Harbour Master and his staff are some of the best around and would not have taken the action they did without extreme provocation. So in my book the fine could have been doubled.

We had a similar nuclear bonehead over many years in Poole who would tear through the harbour at extreme speeds (speed limit 10kts) like 50kts in a big racing power boat, even at night. On at least one occasion they had to stop the outdoor theatre on Brownsea Island because it was impossible to hear above the noise of it's exhausts. This berk owned many of the local night clubs and just laughed off £400 fines and carried on regardless, only stopping I think because his businesses went bankrupt, although rumour had it he still walked away with plenty of cash. Maybe a fine of several thousand pounds at a time would have grabbed his attention better. Appropriately his initials phonetically said 'arsie'.

 

[volvopaul]

I'd agree with the actions of the hm he is just doing his job. It's the courts that don't get on the real world. I too am on a river mooring and can honestly say that the hamble river patrol is near on useless , I've rang them many times to complain I even e mailed a video of a speeding fishing boat. That was over a year ago , I never got a reply. All there interested in is the entrance to the river and the upper part near manor farm trying to catch ribs speeding, boats seem to use the m 27 bridge as a stop go board.

 

[fireball]

It appears that most of us agree that the level of fine seems to reflect how seriosly we take being disturbed on a mooring.

No - that's not the point ... it's not the disturbing part of it - it is the danger and the blatant disregard for "the rules".
If the bloke had been caught once and he slunk off with his tail between his legs then he wouldn't have been prosecuted.

Do you know why there is a 6 knot speed limit there? Is it "safe" to wakeboard there?

Will it detere, boarders,skiers and Jet skiers from doing the same round boats at anchor though.
Isnt there a better way to educate these people. after all fines and penalty points seem to have little effect on inproving driving standards.

Those that want to learn will - those that don't give a toss wont ... I don't think any of us want the sort of regulation that will allow us to exclude the tossers - so we have to put up with it - to a degree - and hope the HM can prosecute successfully...

 

[mjf]

I'm a fan of the staff at Lymington HM office - top chaps from head to toe IMHO

Always helpful and pleasant

This fine is low - couple of summers ago a RIB came in and overtook the ferry a couple of ferry lengths from the terminal and then crossed its bow when the skier he was towing at 20k+ fell off. He was recovered and the party then went to the yacht haven at 20k+.
Parked there overnight - Haven locked the boat as not allowed to overnight berth at the fuel berth. HM saw the whole thing on CCTV from their office window and recognized the boat when refuelling HM launch next morning.

Fine was £3500 from memory - that might have incl costs too 'cant remember.