Who owns a marine survey?

M

Mctavish

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 Mar 2014
Messages
276
Location
London
Visit site
The surveyor or the prospective owner of the boat? The prospective owner, if they've bought it. How do you prevent it being given to someone else without that person paying for it?
 
In general, the only person a surveyor owes a duty of care to is the person who commissions and pays for the survey. This means that if a boat owner gets their boat surveyed, and subsequently sells it having given the purchaser a copy of the survey, the purchaser cannot then sue the surveyor, if it turns out they missed something important. This is why it is recommended that if buying a boat, you commission your own survey, before parting with your cash.
 
The copyright in the survey normally rests with the surveyor, and ones I have read explicitly state it should not be disclosed to others without permission, but mostly this is ignored.

Most I have read are so tightly written that even if they failed to note the keel had fallen off they still could not be sued.
 
The buyer has to pay for the survey but, if the surveyor finds an issue which might cause the sale to fall through, the survey will be closely examined by all parties. So, you give the information to the Seller. Then, if the sale falls through, the Seller acts on the information by improving the boat or selling it on different terms - but without paying for the survey.
 
Quite common to share the findings of the survey with the vendor as part of the negotiation process because the buyer may need to show that there is a sound basis for his position. The vendor has no rights to the survey and he cannot take any action against the surveyor unless the surveyor formally assigns the survey to him.

There is nothing to stop him taking note of and dealing with the defects if the sale falls through as a result of the survey. Why should the erstwhile buyer object? The survey for which he paid has fulfilled its function and given him the opportunity to pull out of the purchase of a boat that did not meet the claimed description on which his conditional offer was based.
 
I don't know. You're happy to pay a few hundred pounds to prove that the seller's property did not meet his claimed description in a fundamental manner, (while, there was, by definition, no way of knowing this for certain without professional assistance)?
 
Depends on your definition of "happy". If you are buying a boat, you can rely on your own judgement, do without a survey and live with the consequences. Or you can engage (and pay for) a professional to check it out for you, and if he finds it has significant undeclared faults you can renegotiate, or he confirms that it is as described and you buy the boat. Either of those outcomes should make you "happy" - otherwise why bother going through the process. Remember, by the time you have engaged your surveyor you have made a commitment to buy the boat, and the vendor has made a commitment to sell it to you - so it is not about proving anything to the vendor but satisfying yourself that the boat is what you have committed to buy. You have no comeback against the vendor for anything you find after you have completed the purchase, but you may have a claim against the surveyor if you can show he was negligent in his findings on which you relied.
 
Yes - I believe in surveys. I suppose that if sellers paid for them, for whatever reason, they'd just include the cost in the price anyway.
 
I backed out of a boat purchase after the survey revealed significant defects undeclared by the seller or his broker. When asked either to rectify the problems or adjust the price, the seller refused to budge. I then used the survey to exit the deal with the broker happily refunding my deposit. I regard that as money well spent: the seller did not get a copy of the survey,nor did the broker. I simply told them the problems identified and asked what they would do: the response was nothing, so I walked. I told the broker he could offer the survey to a subsequent buyer for a small fee, but that was not followed up, as I suspect the seller wanted to shift the boat without revealing the problems to someone who couldn't be bothered with a survey.
 
I paid for a survey and thought the best plan was to send the survey report to the broker in order to substantiate my revised offer due to defects. It did the job.

A report may not be passed to anyone without permission from the person who paid for it.
No person other than the person who paid for the survey may rely on the report.
 
The copyright remains with the surveyor, but the person paying for the survey has the right to use it as part of the normal sale/purchase arrangement. In the usual buyers pre-purchase survey situation, it helps the sale process considerably if at the least, relevant chunks of it are communicated to the seller - the bits relevant to either rejecting the boat, or seeking a price adjustment.

As brokers ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) we find it very hard to convince sellers to either deal with an issue or reduce the agreed price to complete the sale if the buyers does not convey some detail about what his survey has found. Sometimes the buyer simply gives us the full survey, which is fine, but if the sale then falls through we don't just hand it on to another purchaser. We tell the the next potential purchaser the broad brush picture of the main defects found by surveyor X, and say that if they contact him he may be able to assign a copy of the full survey to them for a fee. Some surveyors then make a partial refund to the first buyer on selling a second copy. Selling the copy makes them liable if anything is found badly wrong with their survey.
 
Mctavish said:
Yes - I believe in surveys. I suppose that if sellers paid for them, for whatever reason, they'd just include the cost in the price anyway.
Click to expand...

Not sure you fully grasp the purpose of a buyer's survey. It is part of the process of deciding that the boat meets its description on which your offer was made.

A seller may also commission a survey which may be useful to him in a number of ways. It may identify faults that he might want to deal with before offering the boat for sale. He may well then share the findings with potential buyers to show that faults have been dealt with - or exist but not dealt with, or he could use it in defence against the buyer in the event of a dispute. Unlikely however that he would specifically add the cost to his asking price, although he may believe that the existence of a recent survey will add value to his boat. The buyer though, cannot rely on the seller's survey because he has not commissioned it.
 
Tranona said:
Not sure you fully grasp the purpose of a buyer's survey. It is part of the process of deciding that the boat meets its description on which your offer was made.

A seller may also commission a survey which may be useful to him in a number of ways. It may identify faults that he might want to deal with before offering the boat for sale. He may well then share the findings with potential buyers to show that faults have been dealt with - or exist but not dealt with, or he could use it in defence against the buyer in the event of a dispute. Unlikely however that he would specifically add the cost to his asking price, although he may believe that the existence of a recent survey will add value to his boat. The buyer though, cannot rely on the seller's survey because he has not commissioned it.
Click to expand...

We will be putting our boat on the market soon, and providing a copy of a 12 month old survey to all who ask free of charge. Whilst it cannot be relied on legally, we see it as the best way to show how good the condition of the boat is, before a buyer travels to see her and maybe has their own survey. If they decide to rely wholly on ours that's their choice and they will save a few hundred pounds, still knowing that they have a sound boat.
 
superheat6k said:
The copyright in the survey normally rests with the surveyor, and ones I have read explicitly state it should not be disclosed to others without permission, but mostly this is ignored.

Most I have read are so tightly written that even if they failed to note the keel had fallen off they still could not be sued.
Click to expand...

I had an insurance survey done a couple of months ago. Just had a check and there is only a statement about no liability extending to others, as you might expect.
 
superheat6k said:
The copyright in the survey normally rests with the surveyor, and ones I have read explicitly state it should not be disclosed to others without permission, but mostly this is ignored.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the buyer could claim that it was a "work for hire", however it seems you're right about the copyright ownership.

https://www.gov.uk/ownership-of-copyright-works

Seems to me that, from a copyright point of view, a printed survey could be resold the same as a secondhand book can be resold.

I'm dubious whether the nondisclosure part could be enforced - it would required the buyer to have agreed to nondisclosure in advance, and clearly such sharing and reselling occurs routinely ("you can have it for half of what I paid for it").
 
Strolls said:
I was thinking the buyer could claim that it was a "work for hire", however it seems you're right about the copyright ownership.

https://www.gov.uk/ownership-of-copyright-works

Seems to me that, from a copyright point of view, a printed survey could be resold the same as a secondhand book can be resold.

I'm dubious whether the nondisclosure part could be enforced - it would required the buyer to have agreed to nondisclosure in advance, and clearly such sharing and reselling occurs routinely ("you can have it for half of what I paid for it").
Click to expand...

But the survey really provides 2 things.
1- an opinion on the condition of the boat
2 - a route by which compensation may be claimed if the surveyor misses something fundamental ( e.g. knackered rig)

1) can be passed on easily to anyone who reads the report or even just discusses it.
2) can only be passed on if the surveyor "sells" the report to another person.
 
My survey has this clause at the end 'Copyright remains the property of (the surveyor). The document shall not be reproduced or passed to a third party other than
the client's insurers or authorised repairers.'

Seems fair to me but I believe that I am allowed to show it to a third party whilst in my presence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

P
Essential pre purchase or even pre survey checks
2
Replies
28
Views
902
Refueler
Refueler
C
Being offered a free Mystere 26
Replies
17
Views
719
Concerto
Concerto
EugeneR
Help with getting sold boat data
Replies
8
Views
535
Tranona
T
ashtead
Standing rigging replacement
Replies
16
Views
649
ashtead
ashtead

Share this page

Top